Author Topic: If you are a gamer, like Go, neural networks, machine learning, AI... this will entertain you.  (Read 510 times)

Jed McKenna

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I know little about those computer topics, but I found this quite engrossing. It contains some deep messages about our future. Battle between man and machine... who wins? Massive implications. I found it strangely emotional.... and I don't play any games.



Be well,

Love ya, Jed.

P.S. Only after you have viewed the above vid, have a look at this one:   No cheating now.

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solight

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I play Go, and I worked on artificial neural nets for a while. I used to think machine can never touch the art of Go.
It was a monumental moment when Lee was beaten. This is huge. Human can now pretty much give up on being the best in anything.
Maybe it's God's way of saying, grow up, swallow your pride, stop identifying being a human.
Better do this quick, because quantum computer is coming, as described by Q , yes, the very Q from the Q movement.

Jed McKenna

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Hi Solight

Delightful to hear from someone closer to Go and AI than I certainly am. So, did you enjoy the show? I much prefer the strategy of Go to that Chess. I always felt that Chess was about conquering and Go more of acquiring through almost a surround and embrace... but I don't know much about either. I never enjoyed games much but I thought that show was quite well done. I even felt a little sadness for Lee. Hi took it like a true oriental gentleman.

Take care and stay well.

Love ya, Jed.


solight

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Dear Jed,

I did enjoy the show very much. To me the sadness is from the shedding off of a fond belief, that human are special.
The comparison of Go and chess is interesting. One is more linear, one is more rounded. One is more mechanical/straight forward, one is more fuzzy. A very good representation of Western and Eastern characteristics. But both lost to the brute force of the machine with heuristic complexity that cannot even fully grasped by its programmers.

guest1170

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I think I will stop playing chess and start playing Go. I have no hopes in chess.

That being said, when and if I finish the video, I may give my comments on them.

For now my questioning is: Is chess going to be forgotten, the same way checkers was, and be totally replaced by Go? And even further: If that happens, is Go also going to be replaced by something even grander, more sofisticated or interesting? We may see, or we may not.

solight

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I think both chess and Go have lost the luster. What's the point of a game when your defeat, by a machine in this case, is guaranteed? But as tool of self-discovery, then yes, they still have utility.

Jed McKenna

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Thanks for sharing that S:

I have always had a little thing about gambling... never did it, don't care for it and think that there are few more foolish things one could do with their time and money. As I read your post, I thought... 'Hey, this is just the same.... a machine that always wins'. Granted, said 'machine' will win over a period of time while it whittles away your earning. And therein lies that trap. But in the end... you always lose. Am I making sense?

Love ya, and stay well.

Jed.
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solight

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Thanks Jed, that got me thinking...

In the big sense any human endeavor is a game against God, and human defeat is guaranteed. That's one aspect why TR makes sense, because TR is basically not playing the human game anymore.

Come down into the realm of human, I'd argue that there are different gambling games. For example, roulette is more like a game against a perfect player, but black jack is against a set of imperfect rules, and because of that imperfection there have been cases that someone consistently beat the house.

Things like stock trading is further removed from gambling, it's a game against the crowd. The chance of winning is improved once seeing and eradicating one's own herd mentality.

I know I am still playing games. I am looking into that :)



Jed McKenna

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Thanks for that S:

You got me thinking as well.

How could rules be imperfect... I don't understand that one.

Much love and stay well.

Jed.

solight

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"Imperfect" probably is not a good choice of word. What I mean is that the rule of the game is partial, it favors one side. In the case of black jack, its rule favors the house if the player is an average gambler playing randomly, but the table is turned if the player puts in the effort to study the odds and play intelligently, as sung in the song, "you got to know when to hold'em, know when to fold'em, know when to walk away and know when to run."

This "imperfection" is of course also God's perfection. 8) :D

Jed McKenna

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Maybe why there are no Black Jack games in this country... perhaps someone woke up to that one. Yes, the Gambler is a great song and applies to many and varied things.

Love ya, Jed.

Sandraanne

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I have to add here that no game plays by the rules of the game if something else like complete awareness comes in.  I have seen this first hand time and time again, where if I don't believe my eyes when someone is on a losing streak and I'm holding another outcome, that the cards themselves are but an illusion and will twist themselves to a better outcome for those directly involved (not the house).  That being said I've also noticed that any hostile entitiy that remains hostile to me will lose every hand whether I want them to or not.  It's like the energy field itself makes sure it will rid itself of the offending party, almost as if if you don't allow yourself to enter into it, it will expel you.  The resistence to losing makes you lose. Those who have the biggest egos who sit down and think they know the odds and how it should go, win some lose some are always shocked and they literally might not win a single hand, forty or fifty losses in a row and it all started with the way they thought they knew better.  Well, things are not really what they seem, no matter where you go.

Jed McKenna

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Thanks much for that... and everything can be your teacher when you are ready to learn.

Take care,

Love ya, Jed