Author Topic: The insufficient 'I'  (Read 493 times)

DanJ

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The insufficient 'I'
« on: August 04, 2018, 01:39:47 pm »
Hi Jed,

I know in your books you allude to Maya, that 'meddlesome Hindu deity', as I believe you call the Goddess of Illusion.  Ramakrishna would always say 'Maya is women and gold', and that you need to overcome attachment to these two things to make any progress on the path to wisdom/liberation. 

I was wondering if you agree with this, and if you could provide any practical advice on how to get over them.  Addiction to money and women in one form or another has tormented me to the point of desperation throughout my life, as I'm sure it does to us all, and I can't seem to make any headway in resolving it.   

To quote a popular song's lyrics, 'all the gold and the guns and the girls couldn't get you off'.  I understand this, that there is ultimately no way to satisfy my desires, but I can't just eliminate them either.  It's just a never ending cycle of wanting what or who I can't have and being depressed about it.  Is there anything you could suggest?

Thanks
Dan
« Last Edit: August 04, 2018, 02:34:55 pm by DanJ »

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Jed McKenna

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Re: The insufficient 'I'
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2018, 12:13:38 am »
Hi Dan:

Thank you for your thoughtful questions. The things of this dream, often called Maya, are a distraction as you realize. While ''appearing'' to be''here'' and a ''you'' they cannot be avoided. I love Maya and am an endless admirer of her tricks and traps. She is truly brilliant and while ''here'' any effort to overcome her is doing exactly what she wants you to do... waste energy that would be better spent on seeking the realization of Truth, your True Nature. That is the only one true desire (de-off, sire-father) and all else are just shallow Mayanic tricks. While in this dream you will have desires. They are not real but certainly appear to be.

Your desire for money is a quest for security and continuity... that you will be safe and the dream will go on and on. The real you does go on forever as it has no start and thus no end. There is nothing more secure than the real you. What you seek, you seek for a dreamed character which will never be fully satisfied and will drop the body at some future point. That's just the way it is.

You are attaching importances to your desires and they inevitably originate in your childhood. The strange trick with desires, with one exception, is that desiring tends to push the wanted thingy away from you. Not caring tends to open up the possibilities which include realization of those ''desired'' thingys.

There is nothing inherently wrong with wanting sex and money. Of course, I don't encourage hurting anyone in the process of meeting your desires. But there is something that doesn't work for you otherwise you.

Care to share a little more about you upbringing, ''spiritual'' studies, readings, etc. Give me a little more to chew on.

Love ya, Jed.




Jed McKenna

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Re: The insufficient 'I'
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2018, 01:27:39 am »
Hi Dan:

I wrote another response, lost it then found it. It may add to your knowledge or confuse you even further.... I prefer the latter.


Maya is a lovable ****. Everywhere in this dream. She will pull and use energy that might be spent on better things, like seeking T/R. Early on I found that if I love and admire her she just doesn't bother me. I do understand you concerns though and I think you are lying about them.

You don't really want sex and money, you want acceptance/love and the assurance of continuity in the dream. Within the dream is the context that you are currently in. The more you understand what is going on the less you will be affected by it. I have met very few circumstance which could not be ''corrected'' (not the right word) by awareness. It's all entertainment and while you could just be enjoying it you are continually experiencing the arising of importances installed in the non-existent past mostly by well meaning, immature and incompetent people and organizations. Forgive them, they know not what they do (and did).

How do you deal with any dream? I suggest the ultimate solvent, awareness.

Now, where do all your problems go when there is no ''you'' or ''I''? Everything in this dream hinges on that concept, and there is no ''I''. Try to find it and you will fail for a thousand lifetimes.

All you desires will go unsatisfied because you are missing that one desire that will take care of it all... the desire (de-of the, sire-father) for your source, your origins, the true reality, and any other word folks might use to describe the indescribable.

There is a way of being in this dream where you see all (including Maya) as a pointer back to that true desire. Maya will never stop showing you what isn't... now focus on what is and in the meantime enjoy the show... it's all entertainment.

Love ya, Jed.
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DanJ

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Re: The insufficient 'I'
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2018, 08:45:56 pm »
Thank you for the feedback Jed.

Regarding what you said about money, yes security is definitely a part of it.  Not sure about the 'wanting continuity in the dream' aspect, though.  The dream/nightmare will probably continue regardless, but having money just makes it more tolerable.

I do completely agree with your comment about sex/women- it really is all about love and acceptance.... it struck a chord reading that. If I really like or 'love' someone, it becomes of paramount importance what they think about 'me' (or this character I'm portraying). 

I also agree that there seems to be an inverse proportion or ratio between how much I care and how much of that affection I receive.  But is there really a way to care less about someone's opinion who I hold in very high regard and feel that intense attraction to?  Is it all just ego validation? 

Jed McKenna

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Re: The insufficient 'I'
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2018, 09:27:41 pm »
Not all about ego, just 100%.

Love ya, Jed.

DanJ

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Re: The insufficient 'I'
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2018, 05:25:19 pm »
So please, is there any advice you can give to help me destroy this mind which has caused such misery for so long?

Jed McKenna

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Re: The insufficient 'I'
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2018, 12:22:55 am »
Good question. While you still appear to be in the body, destroying the mind will make you totally dysfunctional and you will probably be locked up. Drug addicts are a good example of a destroyed mind. It's not what you want. You want understanding, of the mind, its patterns, its games and the world it creates.  The starting point is that ultimate solvent, awareness. Practice taking the position of an impartial/disinterested observer. Don't expect your world to change over night (but it might). Just be patient and you will find from that witness perspective, emotions, ups and downs, etc. will smooth out rather surprisingly.

Love ya, Jed.

DanJ

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Re: The insufficient 'I'
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2018, 07:41:25 pm »
I can take the witness perspective, but I'm still identified with this terrible 'me' who is obviously being tormented by the universe itself.  It's becoming more and more obvious that I am a joke that someone or something is getting entertainment out of psychologically tormenting.  No, I'm not in a North Korean gulag, but I am in a pretty f-ed up place where things are getting worse.

I hate doing the woe is me thing; ultimately almost everyone on this forum seems to write to you because they are dealing with their own personal world of s--t.  It's just that there doesn't seem to be any actual solution to any of it.  Like the hope for real change is a complete illusion, and it's a fundamental part of the great lie.  Hope was the last thing to come out of Pandora's box, after all.

So all the spiritual autolysis and meditation and awareness stuff doesn't amount to anything at the end of the day. Find out your 'true nature' is what you all say, but it's such a bill of goods.  I know I am the joke, and the one who watches the joke, but where does that get me?  Nowhere but here.

Jed McKenna

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Re: The insufficient 'I'
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2018, 01:41:55 am »
Dear Tortured One:

Sounds that you want a quick fix.... can happen but usually takes another trauma to shock you out of your current trauma. Obviously that second matter can become an issue all on it's own. Yes, all hope is false hope... so what? Nothing every changes? Well... from the perspective of T/R that is absolutely true.

How long did it take you to weave this current mess that you appear to be in? What are you willing to do to rise above it? How long do you think it will take? What is one thing you could do (doesn't have to be big) NOW?

Remember, almost all the things that need changing come under the category of ''thinking''... with a few lying in ''circumstance''.

Love ya, Jed.

DanJ

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Re: The insufficient 'I'
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2018, 07:31:57 am »
I wouldn't say I'm just looking for a quick fix.  I've been knee deep in this 'awakening' stuff for 20 years, and I'm getting nowhere.  I constantly think suicidal thoughts, and I'm not looking for sympathy, but it's just the truth.  When I was 19 I tried to kill myself by jumping off a 3 story building because I thought the universe was indicating it (I know how crazy that sounds but it's a long story) and just ended up breaking my back.  I don't know if I need to try again from a higher one.  It seems like it might be the only way for things to change.  Ramakrishna only got his enlightenment when he was about to decapitate himself with Kali's sword.

Again, I know it's all relative and many people have it much worse than me.  I'm just really over feeling depressed and impotent all day long, with addictions and cravings that can never be satisfied; I don't know what I can do NOW, other than sit on my couch or lie on my bed staring at the f--cking ceiling. 

I would absolutely want to change my thinking, i know it's so important as you say, but I've tried for so long and am obviously too mentally weak.  I cannot stop the negative thoughts that are constantly besieging me, and taking the witness perspective simply hasn't worked. 


Jed McKenna

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Re: The insufficient 'I'
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2018, 09:16:14 am »
I'm at a loss. What do you think I should say to you?

Love ya, Jed.

DanJ

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Re: The insufficient 'I'
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2018, 11:29:42 am »
There's nothing you can say, I was just venting.  Apologies for that.

DanJ

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Re: The insufficient 'I'
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2018, 12:37:53 pm »
Sorry again, that was wildly inappropriate; I think I'm just frustrated with all the various techniques that are recommended, by you and others, which don't seem to get you anywhere.  Of course I can just speak for my own experience.

Jed McKenna

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Re: The insufficient 'I'
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2018, 09:52:37 pm »
In a strange sense, not technique is designed to take you anywhere. You are already there. All the best technique can do it remove the impediments to realizing that.

Love ya, Jed.
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DanJ

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Re: The insufficient 'I'
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2018, 08:21:04 pm »
Hi Jed, 

I have one more question that I would really appreciate you responding to.  Sartre wrote that 'hell is other people'.  I read somewhere that he later clarified that what he really meant was actually that the lack of other people is hell.  Regardless, I've come to realize that a huge amount of mental suffering has always been due to my relationships with others. 

I've read so much about what you've said about realizing your true nature and how everything is an appearance in consciousness, etc.  I can get on board with non-dualism and believe that objects only exist due to the subject and all that.  However, i can't get over the fact of other subjects.  Although in dreams we imagine other people who are not actually real, it seems clear that in reality I exist alongside many, many other beings.

Some of these people are constantly causing inner turmoil (well obviously I'm doing it to myself) because my relationships with them are far from ideal, i feel inadequate or because they let me down in so many ways, and no matter what I've tried I can't stop caring.  It's really amazing that my 'love' is often my worst enemy.  Here is my question - How can finding your true nature (or anything else) solve the problem of 'others'?   It seems there will always be a hierarchy or psycho/sexual foodchain among us.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 08:29:28 pm by DanJ »