Author Topic: Newbie  (Read 1109 times)

AZS

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Re: Newbie
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2018, 12:04:56 pm »
OK. Up, down, light, shadow etc - none of it is the Truth/Reality as it all within the dream. This however still has a separation to it - Truth vs dream.

Also, since the first step, it has also been realised that the search was there, at least partly, to escape the dream as it was seen as very painful, unsafe and, most importantly, meaningless. Now, there is a movement towards fully facing the dream. The character will never be able to escape the dream and so there is a curiosity about how the character's process will be unfolding (even if it is seen that this unfolding does not appear to have a meaning/goal as it is within the dream). Accepting the character rather than seeing it as the problem seems to be the current perspective. Further...


AZS

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Re: Newbie
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2018, 04:34:22 am »
I had a moment today where I could see someone at work doing something to protect their self-image rather speaking from the integrity of what happened (i.e. they misunderstood the question to start with and so gave an answer that was not correct). First, I got irritated. And then I saw – oh wow, that’s exactly what these characters’ scripts are at the moment! One saying something to protect their self-image and the other one (“my” character that is) getting irritated. And both are what is. And the seeing through it is  also what is.
Also, I have moments I hate my job. And then again it was seen, oh it’s this character’s script from time to time to be grateful for this job and from time to time hating it. Both states of mind are what is and then what comes after (i.e. I need to go/stay, this is good/bad for me etc) are thoughts on top of the initial thought of like/dislike. And these thoughts of like/dislike also as their base seem to have certain assumptions/beliefs (i.e. thoughts), like layers and layers and layers that don’t have substance but when felt and then “owned” by a particular character appear very real. And that’s what is too – nothing wrong with that. And even believing that there is something wrong with that is ok – although the  moments when it is seen through it seems like a mad thing to do but when lived by the character it’s totally and utterly believed. But believed by whom? Oh… There is no-body who believes, beliefs just are! Sh*t.. Further…

AZS

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Re: Newbie
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2018, 10:44:29 am »
There are times when it is absolutely seen that none of what is perceived is who I am. And then there are moments when it is not seen. It seems that when a passing toughts/emotions are given value (either positive or negative), the identification seems real. Also, there is no purpose. And even saying there is something or there isn’t something is meaningless. Language is so dual – one word necessarily implies its opposite. But in reality there is no deffirintation whatsoever – it is ALL perception.

So there is desire to write to explain what is happening, Who has this desire? No separate entity is found – just desire. What is desire? A feeling plus thought “I want to write this” and then “because” arises to explain the desire. So desire is a feeling and a thought (not sure which one arises first). What is feeling/thought? Feeling is a bunch of sensations arising in the space that is labelled  “the body”. Thoughts are words that seem to arise where the head is. What are words? Words seem to be these subtle sounds around the head area that are given a certain meaning. Where does the meaning comes from? Memories. What are memories? Pictures, sensations and more thoughts. So the desire comes from a memory ie something that has been taught at some point in the past. What is there before something is taught? There is truly NO-THING. It is like there is nothing and then mind comes in and there is a perception of something and then an explanation given as to where this something came from. But if this is drilled down, it is seen absolutely incontrovertibly that this something comes out of nothing and disappears into nothing. NO-THING is the background of ALL the experiences/perceptions. And yet, it cannot be experienced or really talked about but only pointed to (OMG I actually see exactly what this spiritual “cliché” means now!). Mind/dream/perception/phenomenal world is a blip. It has no continuity or coherence that is attributed to it. There is an experience of joy and relief when this is seen. Who is joyful and relieved? Nobody. There is no joy, pain, relief, love, hate etc. Just NO-THING. Immutable, silent and empty. Further…

AZS

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Re: Newbie
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2018, 07:12:36 am »

Yesterday also what was seen is that when a few years ago I saw that everything is a belief, the character, very conveniently was not put in that category and so the story of the only true thing (ie the character) searching for itself began (haha – now it’s quite funny and incredible actually!). It’s like the character was a sort of a blind spot. When this was seen yesterday, for a few moments the point of reference apparently located in the body kind of fell away and it felt very very disorienting. I cannot say where it went because it wasn’t really located anywhere as such. I then had one of those experiences where my mind was like: “I am dying!” and I was like “ok, then, let’s die”. No death ensued of course – such a drama queen this mind of mine! Lol

At this point, there is still a searching  movement that arises from time to time - it is like something that is labelled “attention” is trying to touch the NO-THING, make it a concept, understand it, know it somehow through perception. But it’s seen through and it stops. It’s like it’s something that still has momentum but it is no longer being believed. This morning, it also has been clearly seen that ANY movement/experience of ANY sort obscures the Truth (or at least seems to). So the words I heard many many times about how the search is what perpetuates the ego really made sense at that moment.

Life IS meaningless and it IS a dream and yet starting to fully integrate this insight has me want to participate in it more because there is truly nothing to lose and nothing to gain! Further..

AZS

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Re: Newbie
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2018, 05:19:35 pm »
At the moment there is this deep sense of peace. It's like my mind is chasing its own tail less and less. Today my boss praised me and normally I would feel this rush of heat in my body and feel good about myself. This time, it did not touch me. Like his approval was not personal to "me", it  was just something he said. I feel this "emptiness" (for lack of a better word). It's like the body literally feels hollow and paradoxically there is a sense of finally knowing that I am whole and do not need or want anything or anyone in order to make me complete. There is less reacting. But it is not like I feel dead/numb. I just feel still and empty in the situations I would habitually feel reactive. And there is a LOT less thoughts going through my mind - it feels very quiet a lot of the time. It's a very unfamiliar experience. Also there is a lot more gratitude for no particular reason. Like there is this understanding that each experience is there for that experience's sake only and not to "wake me up"/"make me better"/"make me happy" etc so there are no expectations and therefore no resentment, just gratitude.

Jed, from the bottom of my heart thank you for the time and energy you put into this forum - your pointer "Look for what isn't" was absolutely instrumental in letting go of the 7-year spiritual search and starting to realise who I actually am.. What a relief! Further...

AZS

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Re: Newbie
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2018, 05:30:21 pm »
This morning I saw how the identity gets "cranked up". So shortly after I woke up the mind presented me with memories from yesterday and then with the things I planned for today. Stories of the past and the future is how the character is created and kept "alive". "Me" is nothing more than a story about "me". If nothing is happening in the phenomenal world (e.g. deep sleep) mind fills in the gaps and says ""I" was asleep". It reminded me about this book on neuroscience that demonstrated the "tricks" that mind plays to make the world look in a certain way - we will see things that are not there and not see things that are there in front of our eyes. Basically mind is a big fat liar, no matter what it says - it is ALL A LIE.. Further...

AZS

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Re: Newbie
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2018, 04:40:44 pm »
Today I was speaking with a friend and while I was listening to her there were long stretches of time I did not have any inner dialogue I normally have about "me" (e.g. explaining to myself what she said, figuring out what I think about it, thinking about what I should say etc). The only way I can describe it is  an "empty head" - it literally  felt like the top of my head was cut off. It's the weirdest feeling to realise that I could understand everything she said without having to explain it to myself. I have a sense that a lot of self referencing chatter is gone, hence a lot of no-thought moments. Further..

AZS

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Re: Newbie
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2018, 07:41:02 am »
So, the body/mind seems to have come to some sort of a balance. Shortly after I saw that I was NO-THING, the searching stopped and I have been experiencing some sort of euphoria/bliss (I heard someone calling it "being drunk on emptiness", which definitely describes my experience). I have a sense it is because the energy used by the seeking pattern was released/freed. I did a conscious connected breathing workshop yesterday and a lot of energy moved and as a result I felt kind of more "landed" - like a new state of homeostasis got established in the body/mind following the freeing of the seeking energy.

At the moment, identification with various stories about the character and her place in the world is in the process of falling off spontaneously and without much drama - it's like the seeing that the mind is lies ALL THE TIME allows for those stories not to be believed when they arise. But identification with the body is still running when not consciously investigated. When consciously investigated, it is seen that who I am cannot be a body. In those moments it is seen that the label "body" refers to a  bunch of sensations, a mental image of this particular body and a thought "I am inside this", a visual of an image of headless torso when eyes are open and a point of reference that is believed to be just behind the eyes. I think the life-long belief that the point of reference is "me" is the stickiest one out of all the various layers that maintain the belief that I am inside the body. So something to investigate when I have time today. Further...

AZS

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Re: Newbie
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2018, 06:55:04 am »
Yesterday I discovered Scott Kiloby's process. Super useful for me. Interesting to have an experience of seeing just shapes and colours moving instead of "people" - it's like nobody is out there at all. The layers of the illusion are so obviously untrue and ephemeral  when seen in isolation and yet when welded together it is perceived so fricking solid and real. Incredible. Also a place where nothing is felt when part of the illusion is truly seen through is kind of "inhuman" - it's like a completely neutral noticing without any movement at all. I do his inquiry in small doses as I start feeling dizzy and almost feel like throwing up when I do it for longer than 15-20minutes. Further...

chibito

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Re: Newbie
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2018, 04:55:35 am »
No commenting on another members thread. You start your own and stick to it.

Thanks in advance.

Love ya, Jed.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2018, 03:27:28 am by Jed McKenna »

AZS

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Re: Newbie
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2018, 07:43:43 am »
Hey C - glad if it’s of any help.

After doing Scott’s inquiry I realised that my mind came up with a new “goal”: “I will be “fully” awake once the sense of separation disappears”. Ha! Looking for another experience to “wake up” - how ludicrous. Whether the character feels separate or not is irrelevant  - just another story. NOBODY wakes up, EVER!! And yet the movement towards the “goal” of “enlightenment” still happens. And that’s irrelevant too. There is still a belief running that the Truth has a specific “flavour” but ANY flavour, however subtle, is within the realm of perception and therefore has nothing to do with the Truth. Further...

Jed McKenna

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Re: Newbie
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2018, 03:29:00 am »
Gently contemplate all that you say until it sinks deep, very, very deep. You will know when that happens... but no one will be home to answer the phone.

Love ya, Jed.

AZS

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Re: Newbie
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2018, 05:23:30 am »
Thank you, Jed.

The below is maybe over 200 words, my apologies. And I would be very grateful for your thoughts/suggestions (if any) - thank you in advance.

When I follow your suggestion, all that is there is this silent, dark, still emptiness (that’s the only way I can describe it). Then thoughts pop up and disappear. There is still this sense that “something” is aware of this “darkness”. When I investigate further, this “something” is just a sensation somewhere in the head area. And when thought isn’t there, nothing is there at all. It’s not like the world disappears visually or sensations/noises stop but when labelling isn’t there nothing (even not the darkness) is perceived as having any existence – it’s very difficult to explain. And then thought comes back and the story “I perceived this and this” comes back and fills in the gap.

These flips are soooo frustrating. There is such complete peace when nothing is there at all. And yet the thought comes back and the story comes back and the agitation comes back and then another thought says “I do not like this! I want to disappear once and for all!” It’s like the labelling disappears and then comes back and then there is a story saying that “coming back” is somehow not ok. 

I have sense that, as you said, it has to sink in but this somehow revives the search because “If I am patient it will happen” type of thoughts come in and there is a “waiting” for something to happen but then there is a thought “nothing will happen”. It’s like there is hope and then no hope and then moments of clarity beyond hope/no hope. And when hope turns into no hope I just go “f”ck this!” and dive into “the world” and let go of all the spiritual thinking/books/videos. This diving in brings a relief as I no longer expect anything from the world other than experiences. But then a thought comes “but if I don’t do any investigating etc, how will THIS integrate?”.

So, basically, at the moment it goes from complete peace to complete madness and back. I guess what I want is for what has been seen/realised to integrate (or to sink in as you say) and for the search to stop, whatever the result of the stopping will be. My sense is that the integration/sinking in is happening anyways but the mind still falls into its old “searching” grooves and it’s sometimes believed and in those moment it’s painful, like a fall from grace if you will. Further…

Jed McKenna

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Re: Newbie
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2018, 07:30:14 am »
You said:

So, basically, at the moment it goes from complete peace to complete madness and back. I guess what I want is for what has been seen/realised to integrate (or to sink in as you say) and for the search to stop, whatever the result of the stopping will be. My sense is that the integration/sinking in is happening anyways but the mind still falls into its old “searching” grooves and it’s sometimes believed and in those moment it’s painful, like a fall from grace if you will. Further…

You are expecting something specific, and that is sufficient to get in your way... it takes very little.

Love ya, Jed.

AZS

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Re: Newbie
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2018, 01:35:07 pm »
Thank you, Jed - that feels spot on.

I've been contemplating what you said and something is shifting. Not sure what so I will let it unfold without analysing. Further...