Author Topic: self enquiry  (Read 1312 times)

blah

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self enquiry
« on: November 26, 2015, 02:46:28 am »
Hi Jed,

My question relates to your spiritual autolysis process. I read your books (again) this year just after what might have been the first step/dark night. I had little motivation to anything (except from fear of being wrong) because i felt existance was futile, and my entire life was just thoughts i'd believed. There was nothing to hold onto and i was grasping at nothing. But also, life was totally normal. I started self inquiry/spiritual autylosis and felt things shedding rapidly. But my outside role/words/relationships actually stayed the same, i was still in automatic mode. I started to feel like i was going pretty mad, like who the **** is Jed anyways and why am i burning my world to the ground? What if im wrong? And i got stuck on 'the heart is part of the ego' thought, and became quite paralysed by it. I then opened a book i had previously been taking lessons from and read more detail about self enquiry- more specifically 'non relational self enquiry'. The mind enquiring into the mind. I really dont feel like i have much contact with inner 'stillness/ the observer from which to do my enquiry from. But also isnt that the point of self enquiry too? It seems likely to me that people who use self autolysis successfully must already have enough of this so the enquiries dissapate (when the question is seen clearly as you say) into stillness instead of getting caught in the mind net. Perhaps my first step wasn't big enough, or wasnt even that.  I cant even say that my realisations i felt i was having were my own, but maybe was just reeeeeally 'believing yours'. Is purity of intent enough?
« Last Edit: November 27, 2015, 08:23:32 pm by Jah »

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Jed McKenna

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Re: non relational self enquiry
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2015, 03:52:28 am »
Dear Jah:

It can be, but who is it what has this purity of intent? Find out that and you will have nothing else to do.

Love ya, Jed.

blah

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Re: non relational self enquiry
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2015, 05:39:20 am »
Yes all questions seem stupid except one.. Of course the response will always be "but who is the one asking the question?" !
But it has just occurred to me that the 'i' that is observing seems not to be able to be observed itself. Im operating under the assumption that i will find 'myself, as though im not already here.
So why keep looking, what am i searching for? And why don't i know who i am? It seems absurd! I AM.
The 'search' is a great trap of the ego. A noble lie.
So all i have to do is stop believing what im not, stop identifying with what arises from the 'i'. Actually i dont know where anything arises from.
And then whats left?
It appears this is what you mean by all thoughts are false. The quest for enlightenment must also be dropped. Is there really one who is unenlightened?

I asked if purity of intent is enough, but i see now the question is irrelevant. Thankyou. Purity of intent is choiceless. I cant trace back any responsibility for anything. I can only see the moment i notice it, i identify with it.
A month ago i felt a sense of surrendering aka releasing the tiller. It made me 'watch' more than 'find'. It quietened my search which i found worrysome but just now i see that maybe the searching was resisting what is.
But there seems to be a split. Like what i talked about before- non relational self enquiry. I speak about the awareness/observer 'i' as though i know it, but im only thinking 'about' it, assuming it exists and i am that.
Another thought.

I realise i write with a lot of rhetorical questions (well they are for me to answer) so I don't think i have one for you except to ask if this is making sense? Or should i page refresh and start again? haha


Jed McKenna

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Re: non relational self enquiry
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2015, 06:49:04 am »
 8) ::) :P

blah

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Re:Self enquiry
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2015, 08:21:48 pm »
Hi Jed,
So as i begin to drop the identification with my thoughts and beliefs in order to get to whats left, presumably who i really am, i see that every thought is a past thought and was gone before i even noticed that i identified with it. There is nothing to find in the past, the past is another thought. Its a life's work to rake over the ashes of every belief ive identifiied with as real or me.
There must be a bigger switch. Or maybe it becomes automatic to not identify with the thoughts through this process...It only matters if i KEEP idetntifying with them.

As i do this writing each day i sense an emptiness. Fear then latches onto the emptiness (which seems to be fear of no self) and says FILL FILL! Keep busy. In fact, my emotional spectrum has pretty much narrowed down to FEAR, choking on fear.
Its hard to do this self autolysis without the assumption that i am awareness/silence, nothingness, oneness etc as ive heard it a thousand times. It seems like a staged discovery. So i don't want to defer to anyone else, but i also don't trust myself and I keep losing my thread of enquiry as i analyse my own trickery. Its muddy waters so far.

So instead of un-identifying with my thoughts like i wrote in my last msg, i enquired into the space between the thoughts in case there is an identification/assumption there. Although this all sounds so paradoxical haha.

If i come to the present, what is here, is there a sense of 'i'?
Things are being perceived with senses, actually not just the senses. Is the brain a sense?
Actually what does 'perceived' mean? It seems its an interpreting within a context of beliefs. It doesn't appear anything can be noticed without being interpreted..?
I cant really say anything is being perceived 'by' anyone. I would normally say me, but i cant find a 'me'. It seems my 'me-ness' is contained within the body, but when raking over it individually i cant find a location. The centre of the head seems closest, although im looking at it, not from it still.
In between the thoughts there just seems to be space. The awareness of things like my heart beat seem projected onto this space.
It seems like thoughts spontaneously arrive. I cant find an origin.
Im aware of the space/emptiness though so that cant be me, but it could be a reflection.
It just feels like a combination of things make up what seems to be me, but none have any substance individually.

I dont know where to go from there?

Thanks for your time


blah

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Re: non relational self enquiry
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2015, 08:23:00 pm »
Also i read your notice board but it didn't say any rule about word count i hear ppl talking about, have i missed something?
Cheers

Jed McKenna

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Re: self enquiry
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2015, 03:29:11 am »
Yes,  rules are buried deep, 250 words max, less words the better, for both you and I.

You are doing just fine, stay with it. Don't expect anything particular or special, just stay open to all that arises.

Love ya, Jed.

blah

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Re: self enquiry
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2015, 01:50:05 am »
Hi Jed,
In the last week some of the latent issues that have been going on all year to varying degrees have re-surfaced (and intensified) & the theme of suffering has come up. As well as death (that old chestnut). While having my usual responses in the events (there was a slight degree of separateness in it though) i was also able to look at it head on with self inquiry. But I just can't find the one who is suffering, yet here i am with a tight chest, anger rolling, anxiety, tears etc. I see that 'suffering' is thoughts i'm believing, but when 'seeing through' them i get to the point where its the thought that 'nothing exists' but then that's a thought too. Everything falls in on itself when i inquire, like words are just mush that contradict themselves and cant really explain what im asking for. But there is still no relief from my 'suffering' except that it comes and goes in waves. I inquired into death as i was sitting in a funeral for a 5 month old baby and i find myself crying to see her parents suffering but i cant find who will die or what that means for me, the answer is always just 'I dont know' and therefore i felt no different.
What is standing in the way? Should i change my inquiry?


Jed McKenna

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Re: self enquiry
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2015, 01:54:45 am »
You think you know  what you are shooting for, you know the target. You can't know the target, only and imagined target. What specifically do you want, really, really want?

Love ya, Jed.

Jed McKenna

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Re: self enquiry
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2015, 12:24:29 am »
There are many misconceptions about Truth and Truth Realization.

Truth cannot be know as that would make the knower greater than Truth, impossible. However, and this is the biggey, you can realize that Truth IS. There is a subtle but important difference, one is not attainable, the other is.

Love ya, Jed.

Jim Hughes

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Re: self enquiry
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2015, 03:17:31 pm »
Hi Jim:

Welcome to the forum. I have removed your post because one of the forum rules is no posting on another members thread. There is a very real reason for this and it is that the only thing of interest, indeed the only thing you might be able to learn about, is you. What others do or experience is fine to read about, but a distraction that is amplified by comment. In addition, comments tend to bring up ego and a subtle sense of competition.

So, post away, but only your experiences and any questions that I may (possibly) assist you with.

So, no cross-talk, 250 words or less, no links, no poems, no pics... stay on point and the point is you. I trust you understand, and you are certainly free to ask anything of me on your own thread... and BTW, only one thread per member.

Love ya, Jed
« Last Edit: December 26, 2015, 10:50:27 pm by Jed McKenna »
With appreciation,
JH

blah

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Re: self enquiry
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2015, 06:52:02 pm »
Hey Jed,
I deleted my post about what I wrote to your question, what do i really reaaaally want?
Its a lie that 'i' can desire or want TR. It means that i will die (well thats the assumption anyways).
I thought i wanted to die, i said it to myself like a mantra everyday. But then one night i was in the bath with my eyes closed and the question came to me - " i will show you the truth, but you can never open your eyes again. You must leave it all behind now. Will you come?"
And maybe its a stupid question, seeing as you said I cant know the truth..but it was like my life, actually my attachments, (same same?) flashed before my eyes and i couldn't do it. It was a moment of brutal honesty. I wouldn't give EVERYTHING to this, not at this moment anyways. Its the fruits of Truth that seemed to be what i was after, but im not convinced that they or truth exists yet.
I spent the next week much more engaged in my life, and more grateful. But it wore off quick. And i went back to SA.
This was actually before i found the forum, so i still don't know the answer to what i want. The end of suffering and happiness yes, but there is also a desire to be done with it.
What is the 'i' that i think is wanting TR?
Because when i ask myself what do i reallly really want, i can only see what i dont want and i can see what is appealing to want, which is based upon assumptions. How can i want something i dont know?
I think this is why you said that i think i know what im shooting for but i dont.

So if truth cannot be known but I can know that it IS, does this mean I am Truth and i cannot observe myself? Or that im less than truth?

Many Thanks Jed
« Last Edit: December 10, 2015, 03:44:54 pm by Jah »

blah

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Re: self enquiry
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2015, 05:34:17 pm »
Hi Jed,
While you're digging up bombs ive been digging deep into the forum and reading all your old rants/posts and doing the exercises you suggest. I realised you asked that we start the thread with an intro of ourselves so i thought id try...

 I read Autobiography of a Yogi at about 13 and that kind of kick started it but i became a severly depressed and suicidal teen and at 17 i decided to kill myself if i didn't find an answer to the meaning of life or happiness by the end of the day. A pretty heavy ultimatum! At about 4pm someone said to me "it sounds like you want to be depressed, its giving you something" and that burst through me enough that i thought it was all in my thoughts & I was choosing to believe them. I did a juice fast, cleared my head and concentrated on being positive and not being a victim. It worked for awhile but the whole positivity thing also seemed to be denying something and i started to repress things in my body. At 18 after i finished school i took the year off to get 'serious' about this. I prayed to the aspect of the divine mother fervorently to show me God exists before i committed to starting the journey. 2 days in a row during my prayers/meditation i had an experience of blissfull energy over flowing through my body, like almost too much to handle i was rocking back and forth, felt like i was levitating although i wasnt. So i thought that was God and i'd be certain forever. The memory of the experience faded over time and now i know the truth isnt an experience.
In my teens and 20's i was doing all the self help, new age books, eastern philosophy as well as dabbling in meditation and kriya yoga sporadically in between drinking, drugs, relationships & trying to be normal and forget about spirituality. I never got deep into the kriya practices, mainly meditation & concentration techniques and then went on to AYP practices with mantra meditation & spinal breathing which is self regulated and not Guru oriented.. (im still doing some of this, though not the spinal breathing currently).

This year Byron Katie's work somehow lead me to trace some of my assumptions back to my childhood for 'healing' where i was shocked to find nothing there, that the past didn't exist. I was just looking at thoughts. This was BOOM for me, like in an instant i didn't exist, or i couldn't prove it. I felt like i was flying through space trying to grasp at nothing, although i couldn't put those words to it at the time. I felt existance was futile, i found no joy in anything, no reason to get out of bed, and constant anxiety over the fear of no self. This lasted for quite a few months and i felt like i was dying.
This is where i stumbled across your books.  It was so powerful all i did was read, SA then go for long walks and talk out loud to myself trying to figure things out. There is an apparently truth realised Zen master near me who i was planning on going to see, but i thought i better be really clear about my question if im to talk with him, so i started refining my questions on my SA and walks with the intention of bringing one to him but each would eventually dissolve. That started about 6 months ago and i still havent seen him haha. Maybe tomorrow..
Then i found this forum and its basically the same principle.
Im so grateful for this forum, despite wanting to delete everything minutes after i've posted  ;D
Thank you for your books and for your time.
 :)
« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 04:18:21 pm by Jah »

blah

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Re: self enquiry
« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2015, 12:33:52 am »
Hey Jed
I keep coming to a standstill with my SA as i think that i'm not going to find anything here. Like you say, the truth cannot be known. This 'seeking' seems like a ploy just to tire me out. The search for TA is all future oriented, what is there there? So i stop and just try to be here now, to surrender to the mystery and be grateful for the human experience. But i also don't fully believe that - Its like i cant yet experience the present moment fully or properly. And then my attachments and stories come and bowl me over so i go back to SA. It seems like i have to be TRULY tired of seeking, with no doubt there is nothing to find. But i find it hard to commit to it, thinking i'll eventually give it up. I have all these assumptions but they also seem part of each process. Im pretty confused most of the time, do i just continue with this cycle?

Jed McKenna

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Re: self enquiry
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2015, 11:01:08 pm »
Hi Jah:

Thanks for the introduction and sharing your experiences.

You are correct, in my experience, that the search is just something to do while waiting for the divine accident. Having said that, many folks have simply too much emotional pain, and that saps energy and focus. So, searching can assist on in that. Also, just ''getting'' T/R isn't always a cake-walk. Being prepared and an adult can assist in the adjustment required.

Everyone is already fully enlightened, T/R, whatever you wish to call it. Almost everyone has covered it over with a very flimsy illusion of separation, I say flimsy but also it is remarkably durable.

Coming to a standstill with S/A is really the point. How can you possibly write anything that is true. The act of putting it into words is one of the major tools of Maya/ego and her separation strategies.

Talk later,

Love ya, Jed.
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