Author Topic: penks  (Read 2113 times)

penks1988

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Re: penks
« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2014, 08:27:40 am »
hey, Jed, I just read your guru rant, and I guess you are right...

it is true that I want T/R as a tool to relieve suffering...
it is true that 90% of what I write is about pain and grief...
it is true that I mainly ask you "how can I stop it" and "oh, and by the way, I want T/R also."

It hasn't been much time since I caught myself always looking for the next thing around the corner to solve my problems, and now it happens to be "enlightenment" that will THIS time REALLY do it!

Hm. May be you are right and I should go for H/A first. But how do you do that? I write this as my depression periods are getting somewhat worse, I think it's time to turn toward it and face it really. You know, I read something in your books that had stuck with me, but now I realize may be I got it wrong - you said that depressions are really like your most lucid moments, and if you try to sooth and treat your depression is like putting yourself back to sleep. But may be that's exactly what I was doing - running away from it. Dwelling in my depressions, instead of dealing with them and letting them go. So how do you treat a depression right? How do you not dwell in it, but rather just go into it and break through to the other side?

Thank you

Jed McKenna

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Re: penks
« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2014, 09:20:33 am »
Hi Penks:

Thanks for posting that. I'm sure you aren't alone in this kind of experience.

There are a number of people who have got T/R after truly horrible circumstance or events were foisted on them.
I don't believe that it's imperative, but what if it was your blessing in disguise.

I know there is strong tendency to avoid these states, but you can't feel anything without resisting it. I don't want you to avoid it, I want (yeh, tell me something different Jed....) I you to experience it as fully as you possibly can. Got to the core with no other purpose, no hidden agenda, just experience it. Take time and be gentle, breathe and love it.

Love ya, Jed.

penks1988

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Re: penks
« Reply #32 on: November 03, 2014, 08:18:36 am »
Hey, Jed, I have 10 spare minutes now so I guess I will write about my list of things I hold on to:

Well, when I thought about  it, I figured out that the list is so infinitely long, that it actally makes sense to thing the other way around - is there something that I actually don't cling to? Only thing I could find out was breathing - and frankly, I'm not even sure about that.

So, for the purpose of the list, here it is. To avoid writing half a page about my major life dramas, here are the things I clung to just today:

First, from the moment I opened my eyes in the morning - I clung to sleeping. That whole "Fuuck, what time is it, I have slept too much again, or I haven't slept enought..." or "I should have slept 30 mins more or 30 mins less..."  That whole thing. Felt various amounts of guilt, shame, irritation and so on. To save this post going over 250 words, I will just list the other things in a list, without my thoughts about them, but they are not much far away from the sleep thing.

So since I woke up, of course, I clung to my breakfast.
-my whole breakfast
-then just a tiny slice of cheese
-then I clung the couple of songs that I listened...
-then I had some trouble in work, so I clung to some minor financial losses, and clung to things not going "my way" "again"
-then I clung to the nice autumn weather outside, so I felt bad for being inside and left to go for a walk.
-I was not sure if I want a coffee, so I clung into it just to be sure I'll have it. I didn't enjoy it much.
-I had a candy with my coffee, that I also clung to, and that kinda took the fun out of it too...

I mean... As I look around, I literally cannot find anything, that I'm not clinging to. Does that sounds right to you, or I got the point of the exercise wrong again?


edit: Or yea, I forgot...there isn't a point to the exercises. I'm probably just clinging to them...
 

« Last Edit: November 03, 2014, 04:37:35 pm by penks1988 »

Jed McKenna

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Re: penks
« Reply #33 on: November 04, 2014, 05:23:26 am »
 :D

penks1988

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Re: penks
« Reply #34 on: November 04, 2014, 11:52:02 am »
   Hey, Jed,

I have asked you this before, but I never got it right. How do you actually know if you have taken the first step? My problem is - I do feel like it happened to me, and I do feel my world destroyed, and I do feel there is no going back from here - but I don't feel like I'm going anywhere  :-\ Yes, I am writing here with you, and it's nice, but I don't have the impression that I'm undertaking some king of journey or that I'm making some kind of progress or that I'm "unlocking doors" or "taking next steps" or moving even the tiniest inch further. Or even if I have the feeling that I'm moving, it's pretty much moving in circles. May be the circles are getting juuuuuuuust somewhat wider, but just a tiny bit, and I think that's mainly because of my bipolar thing.

So... I don't know... May be I'm scared. I mean, of course I'm scared. I'm scared that this will last for the rest of my life, it's pretty scary :/ Being trapped in this... meaningless... nothing matters... nothing is what it seems... how did you call it? Post-apocalyptic Lightmare? Yea, sounds pretty much like it. Like the bomb has been dropped inside me, and now what, I have to walk in the ruins for the rest of my life? What if I never get out of here? Frightening :(

penks1988

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Re: penks
« Reply #35 on: November 04, 2014, 04:35:42 pm »
 I mean... you talk about enlightenment just like a regular job getting done, and I can agree with that, but... when you are getting a job done, you have the feeling that you are actually working on something, even if you don't see how far away the goal is, you still can feel that you are working on something and toward something... I just don't feel anything like it :/ I'm just... not moving. I feel lost in this. I just don't know what to do. I'm sorry  :-\

Jed McKenna

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Re: penks
« Reply #36 on: November 04, 2014, 11:16:23 pm »
The answer to stuck is simple, do something different. Most people keep pushing at the same thing, don't fall for that.

Love ya, Jed.

penks1988

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Re: penks
« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2014, 09:39:41 am »
 Well, I don't really feel stuck, because that would imply that I moved before from this to that and then I got stuck. I don't feel like I've moved anywhere. I just feel... confused and scared, mainly. Confused - I'm not really sure what to think and what to feel and how to act... I feel like... I just don't get the big picture. I wish somebody would just explain to me really simple what's going on here... Why am I here and what am I doing?

Jed McKenna

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Re: penks
« Reply #38 on: November 06, 2014, 12:09:42 am »
You are full of questions, but they maybe not be useful questions. Just watch what you are thinking, feeling and doing. Thinking always comes after.

Love ya, Jed.

penks1988

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Re: penks
« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2014, 03:21:28 am »
  Ok, Jed, just one more question that is troubling me, this time more specific.

What do I do when I find myself in specific mind conditioning? I've found myself go into those states of mind, pretty much under similar circumstances, something just happens to me, and I'm not talking about "normal" states like happy/sad/angry/whatever, but its more like a ... brain shut down. Usually under attention, or in some social situations, my brain just goes... blank. And it's not like a freeze, it's like... I become really uncomfortable, sometimes I just shut down inside myself and become somewhat defensive, I start to feel like people are attacking me with their questions, and I just go like... incoherent, inadequate. It feels like a vegetable. Or like I'm stoned, only that I'm not.

 I started observing this condition couple of years ago, and I try to stay as present as possible when it happens, but its too overwhelming. What should I do when I find myself in such troubling conditions of the mind?

Thanks
« Last Edit: November 06, 2014, 03:23:11 am by penks1988 »

Jed McKenna

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Re: penks
« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2014, 03:35:55 am »
Dear Penks:

I'm not sure about your experience. I  haven't had them before myself. My only suggestion is that something is triggering it. That something is what you should watch for. You may learn to anticipate it and pattern interrupt yourself. My only other thought is learning how to  breath properly. Very few people know how.

Love ya and apologize for my inadequacy.

Jed.

penks1988

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Re: penks
« Reply #41 on: November 06, 2014, 05:45:05 am »
:D

penks1988

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Re: penks
« Reply #42 on: November 06, 2014, 09:42:14 am »
   Hm. I gave it some more thought, and this is what came up. If it is an experience really, because you called it that way, may be its the opposite of the experience of oneness, whatever the heck that is. May its like some sort of separatedness, like... alienation. Feel like everything is alien and hostile. And I just want everybody just to leave me alone so I can crawl in some hole until I get better, and usually I do get better when left alone.

  This brought me to something else. I can't really think and it's hard for me to act under attention. When I started moving toward H/A, way before my First Step, may be 3-4-5 years ago, I read a ton of books on psychology and how brain works and what not, and came to the conclusion that I was an introvert. Add the "can't act under attention" thing, and you get pretty self-conscious introvert. That's what I believed I was, and lived with that assumption, until the First Step, my primary epiphany, which made me feel more or less like a s h i t, that someone has stepped on. Hm. So now it's pretty obvious that I'm not what I thought I was, it's just conditionings that I need to undo now, programmings that I need to deprogram.

 So... bunch of questions, but sorry :/ Thank you for your help!

1. Have you encountered the brain-stops-working-under-pressure thing, and what is the cause for that?
2. And what about self-consciousness, I don't think there is much left now, but I feel like on a more deeper level could be connected to the feeling of separation and alienation.

 Thank you

penks1988

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Re: penks
« Reply #43 on: November 08, 2014, 04:24:11 pm »
  Jed?

Jed McKenna

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Re: penks
« Reply #44 on: November 09, 2014, 01:15:32 am »
I want to know how specifically you know when you are under attention. Please tell me. No fluff and no longer than 50 words.

Love ya, Jed.