Author Topic: Riding the ox  (Read 4597 times)

marcusfable

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Re: Riding the ox
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2015, 06:03:15 pm »
Just realized the last part of my previous post was outside referal again. Talking about whether or not to toss some written notes from lang ago was just ego needing some confirmation from you, ego grasping again.
Come to think of it, probably the entire post was an attempt to get some confirmation. It's scary out there in the dark. Not knowing. But I have to. I've seen too much. I unscrewed too much. Can't go back. Don't even want to.
I say this because I know it to be true. Driving in my car today wondering if this whole waking up thing was not just some great delusion everybody (and this included every awake 'person' ) bought into, I suddenly realized: there's no turning back. And I was ok with that.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2015, 06:30:42 pm by marcusfable »

Jed McKenna

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Re: Riding the ox
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2015, 07:13:59 pm »
in the end you can't hold on to anything, never could. Go for it.

Love ya, Jed  ;)

marcusfable

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Re: Riding the ox
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2015, 04:08:40 pm »
Hello Jed,

Today I asked myself if I wanted the idea of enlightenment  (or being enlightened) more than I wanted truth.
I came to this question because I noticed myself steering in a certain direction when I was inquiring about questions that came up. The direction was, in all cases, aimed at some image I had about enlightenment.
Therefore I figured I had to be as honest as possible about what I really wanted. The answer came surprisingly quick and natural: I prefer truth over the idea of enlightenment/being enlightenend. Why? Quite simply because I know, experientially, that anything less than the truth is illusion/lying to myself and illusion means suffering. I cannot bare lying to myself about these things because I almost immediatly know I am kidding myself; I can feel myself forcing, defending and cramping up, losing energy and growing tired and/or frustrated.

Although I tend to just listen or watch how things unfold, I have also noticed in the past two days or so that even the questions I ask myself can be artificial. So why is that? Well, this too has to do with images about enlightenment and the process leading to it. In other words, the conviction is that I should be asking questions, investigate, throw every image I have in the fire, because this is what needs to be done. True as this might be, it will lead me astray if the motivation behind the investigating, burning, or whatever is the motivation of  someone who wants to get 'there' rather than truth or honesty. The result is a mechanical, driven, artficial process of formulating questions I really don't need to answer.

Some days ago I felt the work was done, and I was right. Offcourse, everything will keep unfolding, there is much ego left to burn/fall away and there are still many moments in a day where ego is more foreground than background. But, there was a naturalness, a flow, a seeing and a lack of trying, forcing or judgment to the process of unfolding. Also there was substantially less thought and more space. There were parts of the day when I was angry when angry, tired when tired, interested when interested, bored when bored and moving when I felt like moving or did nothing when the motivation to do something was absent. This is still here now (how could it not be) but somewhat covered under the aforementioned ideas and strivings.

I got a little sidetracked by ego and I have no reason to assume that this will not happen again frequently (although I cannot be sure). But I'm ok with that. I will never be perfect, probably never be holy, and I will never arrive. Not knowing is the only way to go, and the silence of not knowing is the only true answer I'll ever get.

Love,
Marcel

« Last Edit: February 03, 2015, 05:27:31 pm by marcusfable »

Jed McKenna

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Re: Riding the ox
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2015, 11:39:50 pm »
 :o

marcusfable

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Re: Riding the ox
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2015, 04:00:58 pm »
Hi Jed,

I'm not very good with emoticons. Was it shock you were expressing?
If so, I can understand why. However, I do not want to assume I know  what you meant. Would you be willing to say a bit more?

Love,
Marcel
« Last Edit: February 04, 2015, 06:43:59 pm by marcusfable »

Jed McKenna

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Re: Riding the ox
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2015, 08:28:27 pm »
Dear Marcus:

Don't assume you know anything, at all. In my experience, nothing can ever be known. We just all pretend and keep the game going.

Love ya, Jed

marcusfable

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Re: Riding the ox
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2015, 03:08:30 am »
Yes, pretending. I know what you mean.
Fot the longest time I had been thinking that something was wrong with me for not having answers. I had studied a great deal, read a lot of books on philosophy, psychology, spirituality,  science never feeling  like I had anything solid to say. Until I realized some time ago that it was not knowledge I gained, but theories, thoughts, opinions, guesses. This destroyed my fascination with books. made them empty. Now I sometimes read or buy books (not nearly as much as I used to) for practical purposes. They give me a framework, a story, to convey what I want to say in a way people can easily grasp (e.g. Books on neuropsychology, creativity, etc.)

I guess any verbalizing is the same thing. I know this, but at the same time don't always experience this. It feels like what I know to be true hasn't fully penetrated every aspect of my life yet. I also now that what I know will just keep on unfolding and integrating. So, we'll see how this will unfold. Thank you for pointing it out.

Love,
Marcel

marcusfable

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Re: Riding the ox
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2015, 06:35:00 am »
Everything is wrong.
Not just what is in books, but.....everything.
I always had the sense of something being wrong and I always thought it was me, or some person or circumstance. All of my life I have been trying to make it right. But it can't be done.
No perspective, thought, or concept, it doesn't matter which one, is true. I knew this all along, or rather I felt it deeply. And all the while I have been pretending, deluding myself that it could somehow be made right. It can't, it won't, it's just not true.
Sure for a while one can pretend that everything is in order, nothing is wrong, but sooner or later the truth is revealed, the delusion is uncovered, leaving one wondering how this could have happened or what went wrong. Nothing went wrong. What is, is what is. Nothing can be said about it. It cannot be any other way, and therfore it is perfect. Just from the perspective of some paradigm, what happened couldn't, shouldn't have happened and is experienced as wrong. But from the truth 'perspective' (it is not a perspective but I have no other way to say this) nothing is wrong, everything is just the way it is, and cannot be any other way. No knowing, no concepts, no roles, no meaning, just truth.
Realizing everything is delusion feels  pervasively unearthing, I see how this could be equated with dying, but it is truth. I could go on about this for a while, but I think I have communicated what I wanted to communicate.

Love,
Marcel
« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 06:55:42 am by marcusfable »

Jed McKenna

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Re: Riding the ox
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2015, 07:25:12 am »
Well expressed Marcel, but it's all b.s. and now you understand why.


Love ya, Jed.

marcusfable

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Re: Riding the ox
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2015, 02:53:18 pm »
Yep, it's b.s. upon b.s. all the way down  ;)

So, nothing left to say really...

Then again, I'm having fun posting on this thread. So we could go back and forth a few times more, just for the heck of it.

Still don't know what we would be talking about though. Ah well, we'll see.

Love
Marcel


Jed McKenna

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Re: Riding the ox
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2015, 09:09:52 pm »
 ;)

marcusfable

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Re: Riding the ox
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2015, 06:54:41 pm »
Hi Jed,

Not mich has changed since my last post. I observe I'm basically doing, feeling and thinking the same things as before. There is one difference. Most of it doesn't bother me anymore. And the things that do bother me, I don't get all cramped up about (I'm not thinking that this or that shouldn't bother me anymore).

There's 'nice things' like a sense of space and non-judgment, not being taken in by the drama so much.
There's also physical unpleasantness like: pressure on my chest, and heart palpitations.
The latter are probably due to stress (there has been an unexpected death in the family two days ago which, for various reasons, involves a lot of stress). It could also be a by-product of what I've realized (you know releasing large amounts of emotional energy, or the body adjusting to processing more energy). It could also be both, or perhaps even neither, who knows.
I also realize that realizing truth has not made me immune to trying to find explanations for things. This post is a clear example of that. But, as I said. It doesn't bother me. I take it as it comes.
That's it for now. i'm going to sleep. It is actually 1:55 a.m. in the Netherlands right now, and it's going to be another full day tomorrow.

Love,
Marcel

Jed McKenna

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Re: Riding the ox
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2015, 08:49:14 pm »
Excellent.

Love ya, Jed.

marcusfable

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Re: Riding the ox
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2015, 08:14:34 pm »
Hi Jed,

This thread is nearing its end.
Don't really want it to. I enjoy your company.

But there's just nothing coming up anymore.
Well, there is a lot coming up actually. But nothing to discuss.
I'm even starting to repeat myself.
But that wont be entertaining for long.

Ending this thread means returning as one of a few butterflies to a world full of caterpillars.
Not looking forward to that actually.
Also, I don't know what to do with myself anymore. Life now is devoid of meaning, aim or answers. I'm just sitting here with an empty glass and nothing to fill it with. I know this is the truth and everything else is illusion and suffering. But it is also clear that I still have some adjusting to do.

Love,
Marcel


« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 08:34:51 pm by marcusfable »

Jed McKenna

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Re: Riding the ox
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2015, 10:33:06 pm »
Dear Marcel:

As you know, it's not over yet and there is some worldly adjustments. I suggest we just leave your thread as it is and you know you can come  back anytime and say hello, or perhaps just hang on for moment while things spin a little.

Best wishes to you,

Love ya, Jed.