Author Topic: Riding the ox  (Read 4566 times)

marcusfable

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 131
    • View Profile
Re: Riding the ox
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2015, 09:06:19 pm »
Dear Jed,

Thanks for your kind offer to stand by me while I adjust.
I guess I could use some help when things start to get rough.
So I will keep this thread open.
See you later.

Love Marcel

Jed McKenna

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10209
    • View Profile
Re: Riding the ox
« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2015, 10:42:55 pm »
 ;)

marcusfable

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 131
    • View Profile
Re: Riding the ox
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2015, 03:19:43 am »
Hey Jed,

Posting a little bio seems appropriate today. Here goes.

When I was about sixteen I had a glimpse of what I now recognise as a waking up 'experience'. Offcourse it was not an experience at all. But rather the fabric of reality as I knew it back then crumbling, leaving me utterly depressed and very fearfull. At the time I had no way of understanding what was happening, nor was I ready to accomodate. So I made up some story to make some sense of what was going on. At that time I told myself that what I had been doing in the months before (losing my faith in a Christian God and showing some rebellious behavior towards him/her/it) was wrong and that I was going to pay dearly for my transgressions after death; i would not have an afterlife but rather I would spend eternity alone in the void. Actually I was losing a lot more than what I had told myself at that time (a rather important friendship, a sense of belonging). But I chose to focus on this one particular story. Presently I find it interesting to see how ego hijacked truth realization (by turning the void into a punishment) in an attempt to hold on. it is even more wondrous to realize that it infused belief into something I reallly did not believe in anymore.


Needless to say, a future wherein I was to spend eternity alone it total utter blackness was not a prospect I (ego) could cope with very well. So I developed a full blown obsessive compulsive disorder in an attempt to regaing a sense of control, and assuage my fear and depression. And for the next decade or so, control became the main focal point of my life. Then, somewehere in my mid twenties OCD dropped away, and life returned - somewhat but not quite - to normal.

so why Am I telling you this. Well for the past few months as the process of waking up was intensifying I had a reoccurance of OCD. At present it still is with me. In the last week or so I have finally recognized it for what it is (an attempt to regain a sense of control, and also passify this pervasive feeling of something being very wrong)', also seeing very clearly that what I am trying to do by my attempts to control cannot be done and that this feeling of something being very wrong is caused by a belief, an ego story. This has not yet caused obsessive compulsive behavior to cease, but at the same time I find that this does not bother me.

Ok. That's it for now. Gotta go.

Love,

Marcel

Jed McKenna

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10209
    • View Profile
Re: Riding the ox
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2015, 04:46:01 am »
 8)

marcusfable

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 131
    • View Profile
Re: Riding the ox
« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2015, 07:55:32 am »
Hello Jed,

I wanted to post today without really knowing what to say. Guess I'm gonna find out.

In the past few days there have been some questions buzzing in my head. Questions I know I wont be able to answer, but nonetheless they are there. They come up, then fall away again. Probably they are some attempt of ego to reinvest my energy in pursuing the dream state again, but I'm not sure, and I'm not invested in finding out either. I just see them come and go. Not knowing increasingly becoming the place I venture from, not to.

The questions that has come up the most is the following one: what will happen after this body-mind, this venture point, has come to an end? Will consciousness continue (I do not mean consciousness of self, but consciousness in general) or not? Will seeing continue from all the other venture points, and will this venture point just stop, or will, something completely different happen? Offcourse, as I said, no answer can be expected to these questions. I sense consciousness will not mind either way, but it could just be my mind projecting expectations rather than experience answering.

I'm pretty sure ego is just trying to get a handle on things again. It is ok. i relax into it and let it happen (this is not a choice it is just the way it goes).

Then on a somewhat different note I have been playing with imagined scenarios in which people would aks me questions about truth or what I have realized. In all cases I found that I was not able to say anything about it. I would have to say that I don't know, or that nothing has been realized (I mean this quite literally). How about that huh?

I'm very curious how things will continue to unfold and me posting here is just a way to express what has been going on, rather than an attempt to get some answers or something. Offcourse I like the idea of you reading how things have been unfolding for me, and maybe giving some feedback when you feel I need it.

That's it for now.

Love,

Marcel

Jed McKenna

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10209
    • View Profile
Re: Riding the ox
« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2015, 08:15:27 am »
Dear Marcus:

Find out who want to know all that you speak of, and if anyone asks, just smile. If they really push just tell then you love them, that usually shuts them up. A big hug is also nice. Scares most folks.

Love ya, Jed.

marcusfable

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 131
    • View Profile
Re: Riding the ox
« Reply #36 on: February 15, 2015, 10:25:37 am »
Dear Jed,

Ha, ha. Hugging would indeed be an effective scare tactic. It also reminds me of the zen master who would meet students mundane questions with 'spiritual' answers (e.g. Could you pass me the knife? Answer: Who's asking?) and spiritual questions with mundane answers (e.g. What is the nature of reality? Answering by handing them the  breadknife blade in front.). I could have distorted this story by the way since I really cannot remember much about what the guy actually said or did.

Then I like the comment you made about finding out who's asking. As I said in my last post I realize some identification is responsible for these questions, but it could certainly not hurt to find out what it is exactly that is asking these questions. At this point my answer to this question would be: ego. For it would rather see itself survive, even in some unpersonal/transcendental form, rather than know itself to be temporary/illusion. I guess it is the trap of transcendentalism a lot of people fall into and now I fell into. ego, no longer being able to identify with personal consciousness much and now trying to take up a stronghold in pure consciousness itself.
Isn't it funny how the same thing keeps coming back again and again. It isn't what I expected. I thought that if the veil was seen through, it would be seen through once and for all. But this does not seem to be the case. The same thing is seen through again and again, yet more subtle each time. Offcourse this also means the same fear , disorientation and helplessness returning again and Again. Well, I should now better by now. This truth thing is gonna go all the way, or not at all.
 

Love,

Marcel
« Last Edit: February 15, 2015, 10:48:51 am by marcusfable »

marcusfable

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 131
    • View Profile
Re: Riding the ox
« Reply #37 on: February 15, 2015, 03:04:21 pm »
Addendum to my last post.

While rereading your answer to my before last post I realized that smiling or hugging is actually what consciousness does, metaphorically speaking. It meets everything, welcomes everything. Denies nothing. It does not give ego what ego wants, because what ego wants is what is not, and not what is.
It does not give a stone when asked for bread, it gives bread. It does not give illusion when asked for truth, it gives truth. And what is truth? It is not a smile, a hug, or the occasional slap in the head. That is just the finger pointing to the moon. It's further...it's closer. It's ....slipping trough my fingers trying to speak about it. But only because I'm trying to get a handle on it. And the I that is trying to get a handle on it? That, again is ego wanting something solid, wanting a stone that quite simply isn't there. It's better to just shut up and eat bread.

Love,

Marcel
« Last Edit: February 15, 2015, 03:21:54 pm by marcusfable »

marcusfable

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 131
    • View Profile
Re: Riding the ox
« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2015, 05:19:35 pm »
Addendum 2

To stay with the metaphor of my previous post just a little bit longer...i want to add the following to it.
It's better to shut up and share bread.

Love Marcel
« Last Edit: February 15, 2015, 08:14:14 pm by marcusfable »

Jed McKenna

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10209
    • View Profile
Re: Riding the ox
« Reply #39 on: February 15, 2015, 09:10:44 pm »
 :D

marcusfable

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 131
    • View Profile
Re: Riding the ox
« Reply #40 on: February 17, 2015, 07:29:13 pm »
Dear Jed,

There has been some serious death anxiety going on these last couple of days. Guess there's still some identification with the body. At least that is what I find when I look into it.

That whole neti, neti thing by the way, you know 'i'm aware of my body therefore I am not my body'. Never could convince me. Offcourse by now I know that I could not be convinced because I was trying to convince myself of something. Trying to get somewhere, realize something. I was postulating rather than looking. All of that is old hat by now.
So what do I find when I really look?
I do find a body, or rather, I find physical sensations. There is  also awareness of physical  sensations, without which the body could not be felt. In other words: without awareness there would be no sensations, no body, no world for that matter. in addition awareness remains unaffected by any changes in the body. Awareness is just awareness.
But would awareness still be without form? Offcourse this brings me back to the questions I asked a few posts ago. And then I could ask: who wants to know? Who is this me that wants to know? . I cannot point to the me that wants to know. Sure, there's fear, there's thoughts, but where is the me producing these things? Is it my brain? Am I an epiphenomenon of brain processes? Sure, there's a sense of I undoubtedly produced by my brain, and this sense of me could change when my brain changes but then the questions could araise again: who's aware of all this? And then I find that who's aware of all this is awareness, compeletely unaffected by anything that goes on in the brain (it doesn't change with age, mood, emotikn, etc.). But is that awareness not also a product of brain processes?
Who wants to know?
Etc. Etc.

Anyway, in all of this no I can be found. There's sensations, thoughts, questions, fear and all of that, but no I that wants to know anything. There's just things happening. No I having experiences. i've realized this many times before. Questions arise and are put to rest. Silence remains. but still I keep getting deluded, sidetracked. I gets created over and over again, and then questions an fear arise. I keeps saying this isn't satisfactory, this isn't enough. I wanna live forever! give me something!

Anyway, I'll stop my rambling for now.

Love,

Marcel

Jed McKenna

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10209
    • View Profile
Re: Riding the ox
« Reply #41 on: February 17, 2015, 09:33:35 pm »
Dear RTO;

You want to live forever and want answers...

O.K. You will live forever, you were never born and will never die.

Next. State your question, just one, and it must be crystal clear.

Love ya, Jed.

marcusfable

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 131
    • View Profile
Re: Riding the ox
« Reply #42 on: February 18, 2015, 02:56:16 am »
Dear Jed,

Isn't it amazing..There have been all these realizations, all this casting and burning away. Ending up with nothing, not knowing. I've realized who I am many times but still, but still..not fully apparently.

Now for my clear question.
It is this. Who am I, truly?
A question by the way I have asked myself many times before. And it always ended in not knowing, in silence. In a felt ' I am' .
But maybe its time to return to it yet again.

By the way. What does RTO mean? i tried to look it up but had no succes.

Love Marcel

Jed McKenna

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10209
    • View Profile
Re: Riding the ox
« Reply #43 on: February 18, 2015, 04:41:14 am »
Yes, there is big problem, we don't see who we are, your are Riding the Ox, RTO, what could be more obvious, enlightenment???

Love ya, Jed

marcusfable

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 131
    • View Profile
Re: Riding the ox
« Reply #44 on: February 18, 2015, 06:25:27 am »
Dear Jed,

Now if that is not a nice metaphor I don't know what is. Jezus, looked right past that one and goofed off in a completely wrong direction instead.

Love,

RTO