INVISIBLE GURU FORUM

Hi Donnie:

When I talk of Collapsing T/S it's much more that just a contemplation of the two.

So, back at you, what exactly do you want? Be as specific as possible.

Tell me what is holding you back, and once again be as specific as possible.

It is somewhat unfortunate that all Buddhism from today is very different from the real teachings of the Buddha... at least IMHO, and yes, it will only take one on a rather limited journey.

Share a little more if you feel inclined.

Love ya, Jed.

Hi there:

When you are in a night dream (there are many parallels) you can wake up to the fact you are dreaming and that usually leads to an interesting ''lucid dream''. However, if the dreamer awakens that means arising from the sleep into your human dream. Now, from the human dream you can be lucid in a similar manner and realize you dreaming, which makes the dream much more interesting and lighter, but that is not the dreamer. The dreamer is on one more level ''up''. When that dreamer awakens the dream is gone and everything in the dream disappears.

Of course this is all stories and stories have many limitations, but I submit it as a story that might assist you in understanding a little more on an intellectual level. Realizing their is no you, no world, and not universe is not in itself T/R but what I would call a side effect or symptom of T/R.

Keep in mind that eventually you have to give up all effort to understand as understanding is only a step and must be dropped eventually. You cannot understand T/R, you cannot imagine it... and it is inevitable...in my experience and observations.

Love ya, Jed.

Dear Jed,

waking up from the dream to me seems like revealing myself that everything I believe in is wrong, incl. the world, the characters appearing in it, relationships, etc.

The characters appearing in this dream world have no existence, therefore the whole spiritual search/promise of enlightenment is fraud. Why should a dream character sell something like enlightenment to another dream character? That’s pure nonsense. Recognizing this a few days ago my spiritual world crumbled down, my teachers, you, me as a pupil, etc. As the spiritual search played a decisive role in my life, that was rather fundamental breakdown. After that, I had the feeling of being totally alone. There was nothing left around me - apart of the insight that every spiritual search is a lie, a strong disenchantment.

I concluded from that, that awakening from the dream corresponds to letting all major identifications or concepts crumble down - at least as a first step. But that is just nonsense too - what else?

Should my imaginary self just continue with that imaginary nonsense?

Donnie

Jed, thank you very much for your feedback. You asked for my experiences - not thoughts:

I had a dream once, and asked myself inside the dream - inspired by a Seth-Book - „how real is this?“. It then became obvious, that concerning the feeling of reality I experienced there is no difference between night dream and daily life. I did not know how to interpret this for decades, as I never dared to doubt that daily life is reality. Now it seems night dreaming happens within day dreaming, and there is always this one/the same feeling of reality / awareness. In my experience, this one feeling of reality / awareness is what you describe as an already awake awareness.

The - already awake - awareness you were talking about I also experienced in smaller short „epiphanies“, when I had followed through with contemplations of non-self or impermanence having destroyed all self- / permanence-concepts in the end.

The quality of this already awake awareness mostly is very bright, it is not a personal thing and seems to be contained in everything that is experienced (I am this).

It can also be recognized in watching the breath, seeing that I am breath and breath is God so I am god. In my experience that has a more intimate quality to it.

I will keep watching how this already awake awareness gets covered up by mind activities - and how this watching itself covers it up :-)

Donnie

Dear Jed,

a lot of disturbing and alarming things happened in my dream-life in the last days. I could use this to observe how mind covers up truth and made notes that I boiled down to this (only a rough description):

-  There is self awake awareness, you are truly yourself. You are at home. Appearances are experiences appearing as you
- Observation of a play of appearances happens, without judging, like in a virgin state.
- There is a body/mind appearing in you. At the beginning it is just interested in the play of appearances, later on it is playing oblivious in/with your appearances.
- The body/mind appearance starts to play with self concepts. Clarity about your existence gets lost for the body and mind appearance.
- Now a person with a self concept, a seeming authority is appearing in you, and the show begins: cognitive dissonance happens to the person as soon as there is a mismatch to the person’s self concept. The person gets frightened, as it has forgotten about you, and is therefore developing ideas how to get rid of dissonance.
- You are totally out of the show, there is (seemingly) no awareness of you anymore appearing, the separation between you and the person drives the wheel of the person’s life and it is turning and turning…

But - all of these steps are just appearances in you, so... you are at home. Just a show appearing in you :-)

Donnie

In everything that you see, hear, smell, taste, feel, even in a night dream, there is always the same answer to the question "how real does this feel?".
The answer is always the same and leads to the impression, that there is only one thing which is totally unchanged while  appearances are changing.
And this one thing is the-answer-to-the-question-how-real-does-this-feel.
It feels like that one thing belongs to me/is me.

When I ask myself, how real does the question "how real does this feel?" feel, the same one answer comes up and there is no question left :-) Relief, Letting Go :-)

Donnie

Stop, relax, breathe in the dream that surrounds you, forgive and be grateful... did I miss anything?

Love ya, Jed.