Author Topic: Trying to find/see the core belief!  (Read 11107 times)

Misha

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Re: Trying to find/see the core belief!
« Reply #375 on: August 31, 2017, 04:27:20 am »
Hi Jed,

Checking back in here partly for fun, partly for curiosity re recent hoopla.

I'm not bothered by any of it; if anything it's showing me the rest of what it really means to kill the buddha.  Thank you and the backstory for that.  Somehow it helps me orient to this wacko world "I" still wander (this forum is not really for that; probably nothing could really "help" with that orientation anyway).  :)

And I see with surprise and some interest that different personhoods need to "kill" their buddhas with differing levels of "thoroughness."  Dunno why that should surprise me but it does.  I was okay with extrapolating out from killing-a-mere-fraction.

It's alright.  But reinforces the already-present sense of never wanting to be a guru to anyone (imaginations, projections, and expectations can be dangerous and PITA'S).

What I have been most interested in tho is the way a "click" of learning/grokking has happened re the shall we say situation of the sociopath (at least, that of the nonhomicidal socio):  It's one thing to hide something from others to keep things simpler, and quite another to hide something from others for the purpose of manipulating them.  But neither is wrong or wronger.  The choice to deceive-for-the-purpose-of-control is merely a consequence of certain beliefs, just like anything.  All selves, including those that have been seen-through, operate with beliefs/paradigms/perspectives (however loosely).

One major consequence and benefit to completely killing the buddha is that everything...EVERYTHING...becomes after that the buddha/guru.  Further ends up with its own momentum, forever I guess if the eyes stay open.

Godspeed, and I wish you courage and patience vis a vis all those engaged in "killing" you.  (But you kind of asked for it, y'know....  :))
--Misha

     


Jed McKenna

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Re: Trying to find/see the core belief!
« Reply #376 on: August 31, 2017, 08:12:42 am »
Every guru asks for it... and thank you for your understanding.

It's not as difficult being a teacher if you are empty. If full it will be miserable.

Love ya, Jed.

Misha

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Re: Trying to find/see the core belief!
« Reply #377 on: September 01, 2017, 12:11:55 am »
Here is a question, and it is actually a question re teaching:

Why haven't you just pointed out to her that she has made you into her Moby Dick?  Is there some inherent thing about having to see something with that magnitude of implications initially for yourself, in order to really be able to see it?

Woulda brought me up short, delivered the final whammo...in fact it DID...I encountered Incorrect when I was in the throes of the same thing vis a vis He who I like to remember as My Favorite Sociopath (eye roll).  And it showed me what I was doing...which allowed me somehow to freakin' hold still for it and let it shatter me better.

So--is it better for the teacher to name it/point to something that directly, or no???

Jed McKenna

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Re: Trying to find/see the core belief!
« Reply #378 on: September 01, 2017, 03:21:44 am »
Not much point in pointing to folks who refuse to open their eyes. I save my time and energy for those students who are sincerely searching and have the requisite courage for this journey.

Imagine you're in Texas right now and everything you have is gone, just washed away. Certainly not much fun and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

NOW, imagine you are seeking truth and one day bingo-bango, out of the blue you get it. Your ''I, me, my, mine" disappears in the process and you realize not only have you been given the universe, there is no one who owns... It, or anything at all. You don't ''own'' anything, including memories, desires, thoughts, grandma's old picture, your school annuals... they may arise but aren't ''yours''.

I'm not saying there is a direct co-relation or that it's not a tortious metaphor, but there are some parallels...

Love ya, Jed.

Misha

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Re: Trying to find/see the core belief!
« Reply #379 on: September 28, 2017, 02:20:01 pm »
Here's the thing...I don't get why the folks who have done/are over, and are in the situation which, hilariously and also rather tragically (you can see it both ways) B Roberts calls just "livable", are supposedly helping others get to where they got. 

They must know (if they are really over/done) that helping others to get to where they got makes no sense.  Not just because the situation has nothing to recommend it, but also because there's just no "reason" for it.  Now, yah, there's no "reason" for anything else either, as in, for doing anything else either...but why this?

So I ask you as I wonder about them all.

I get why someone having an experience of oneness with God, or oneness with Love, or oneness with some mighty awesome vibration, would try to help others get to where they are.

But an inexpressible constant blankness, with no equipment anymore to even really paint upon that blankness (don't you kind of have to engage other people's equipment in order to do that painting upon the blankness thing, eh?)--I see zero reason to engage others or even let them engage me for the purpose of (either pretended, as in deception, OR sincerely, as in someone really thinks they want to know Truth) coming to know Truth/end up done.

If you are able or willing to speak to this, that would be great.  I'll add I have no judgment about it--about any of it--I just don't get it.

Merci--Misha


Jed McKenna

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Re: Trying to find/see the core belief!
« Reply #380 on: September 28, 2017, 11:17:39 pm »
Hi Misha:

You said, "I see zero reason to engage others or even let them engage me for the purpose of (either pretended, as in deception, OR sincerely, as in someone really thinks they want to know Truth) coming to know Truth/end up done."

On that, we are in complete agreement. In my experience I see no reason for doing anything at all. I guess if I reach for a glass of water you might say the reason is I am thirsty. While this body might be thirsty, what I truly am wants for nothing, ever. No me to want and nothing out there anyways. Buddha is purported to say words to the effect that desire (wanting) is the cause of suffering. If you want to be T/R then you will suffer over it because there is a ''you'' wanting a ''something'', but, that one is hard to get around and it's the reason that I have witnessed a few students who realize T/R after much diligent work and then throwing it all away in frustration, totally giving up on the whole idea.

Whatever works for you, works for you. Don't listen to anyone else because there is no one else out there. Mind you, if you want to listen to me just a little then I suppose that's o.k.

Love ya, Jed.




Misha

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Re: Trying to find/see the core belief!
« Reply #381 on: September 29, 2017, 03:23:54 am »
Hi...

Thank you for your response, for what you've shared.  I really appreciate it.  The [rarish] times you speak to the particularities of the after-party, it's pretty helpful. 

The answer arrived awhile ago so I came back here to tell it to you.  :)  I'm a cat dropping a mouse at your feet, eh?  :) 

(Just joking--I am happy I never had that experience of you bc I never had or wanted that experience of anyone. :)  But I am grateful for the map type info, the narrative-like descriptions of the process of the...undoing, and for the pointers though it does seem many were not super relevant for me...I am guessing pointer-relevance is likely as personal as a fingerprint, along the way.)

So, here's the reason.  There's a wholly organic, automatic, unstoppable compassion response for a certain kind of suffering...and it goes something like this:  The problem for people is not the fact of projection--untruth in and of itself is not a problem at all.  The problem comes in when certain kinds of projections lead to suffering for people who are projecting/animating/energizing them without knowing it.  I guess there are probably situations where someone can somehow leave off those certain projections that cause them suffering, and find a way to change their overall-projection-flavor to what they'd say is positive, but I'm betting that is rare.  They sure tend to get all piled and tangled upon each other, infinitely, eternally, don't they?  So in that case the only way to stop the suffering resulting from the experience of those projections is for the projector to stop.  I see that.

Especially when a projection gets stuck...which throws someone into the Ahab state...the only "solution" is for the developmental "further" to ensue, ultimately bringing that projection mechanism to cease its function.

So yes, that is a good reason to offer up information that might (or might not) be helpful.  It's a reason I am energizing/flavoring/projecting onto as being "good," in any case.

That's why you do this, eh?...admit it. 

If you are the author of the trilogy, I thank you one more time for the 2nd book.  It showed me the truth of what was going on with me, and probably saved me from what I would have probably come to believe was a kind of madness.

Maybe eventually I'll find a way to send it forward.  :)

Ciao, bello.
--Misha






Jed McKenna

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Re: Trying to find/see the core belief!
« Reply #382 on: September 30, 2017, 08:35:57 am »
Thanks for sharing Misha...

Love ya, Jed.

Misha

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Re: Trying to find/see the core belief!
« Reply #383 on: December 18, 2017, 08:41:37 pm »
Hi Jed,

This is for whichever other who's out in whoville might have a tendency to get inadvertently tied up where I did for a grand while (my estimate is 3 years!):

Something about the mourning for the absence of (loss of any sense of) meaning ending up a long lasting belief that therefore "meaninglessness" actually existed.  And oh, the always-surprising intermittent undercurrent of loss & suffering!

Something about another long lasting belief that somehow "I" could be on the "outside" of everything, the world, everyone...that one was pernicious, and also led to both some suffering and some auto-attempts to inflate the balloon again (didn't work).

Now--without doing anything about those 2 beliefs & their implications on any/all levels (I didn't see them and burn them off...I couldn't see them, for whatever reason) except just accepting them as what I thought the rest of my life/my body's life would be--I realized suddenly (after I don't know how long of just accepting that that was how life was going to be) that I was suddenly seeing them for what they were:  more beliefs, snagged on the wall around a corner from most all other beliefs that were left strewn in the hall behind, all broken on the floor, no longer even missed.  Funny how you can freefall, to a certain extent, while being also on a snag.  (For awhile, anyway.)

Well, I guess with the reality of infinite possibility, or whatever the hell you wanna call it, freefalling simultaneous with snagging is all fully possible, probable, impossible, improbable, etc..  Whatever!

Weird to see/sense the "infinite probability" ineffable thing that used to feel like a void, freefall, etc. seeming more like the "solid" thing, or the more "real" thing, or whatever (not a "thing"...but I have no other words than these).  When "it" used to seem utterly vacant/empty and at the other end of some spectrum from the "solid ground" I used to think I was standing on....  Harhar!

So being left with a sense of nothing more than Life havingbeing its own logic, its own whatever/everything, and no need to understand or decipher it...is no longer even weird.  But that's pretty dang weird, ha!

Just dropping by to say the things that might have jolted a former Misha-Who along a bit by hearing....  :)
--Misha






Jed McKenna

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Re: Trying to find/see the core belief!
« Reply #384 on: December 19, 2017, 12:30:31 am »
... and are you jolted  ??? ??? ???

Love ya, Jed.

Misha

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Re: Trying to find/see the core belief!
« Reply #385 on: January 30, 2018, 01:25:51 am »
Hello Jed,

Life is rolling along, pretty weird and amazing and unexpected.  :)

I was remembering the stuff Bernadette Roberts said at some point re instinctively shutting out all ways for oxygen to get in to fan the self's flames, so to speak--not writing, not going to see people, not going to mass/pray/whatever it was she did at church.  Which ended up serving, accidentally, as the final "snuffer" to snuff out the fire or energy of the self.

Have you ever seen this?  I mean, any verification of this that you know of for anyone else?

I see that any effort, per se, to do the above would just be the opposite of what the above was accomplishing for her...but that is not what I mean (there does come a time when something can just be done without efforting, rather, just seeing "this is next").

Anyway--any thoughts or experience w that snuffer-effect?

Thanks!--Misha




Jed McKenna

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Re: Trying to find/see the core belief!
« Reply #386 on: January 31, 2018, 12:29:33 am »
Try it! Then you tell me.

Looking forward to hear from you.

Jed.

Misha

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Re: Trying to find/see the core belief!
« Reply #387 on: February 02, 2018, 11:08:28 pm »
Well...

I think she (like everyone) had her own words and concepts to describe what is encountered along the way.  I mean, she musta been "snuffing out" her belief in the self, but she described it as snuffing out the self. 

By the way, did you know she died not too long ago?

I am jiving these days with some of Wim Hof's languaging:

what spiritualities call "seeking" = "researching the life"

"belief" is like a knowing there is a "proof" of what is true that is available, even if you don't have the proof just yet

The watching, the watching of the living, is the really cool thing.  The living can go on without the watching knowing it's watching, but not nearly as much can be...dug into in terms of creativity, what Wim Hof calls "control" (not really what others say when they mean "control")...when the watching does not know it's watching. 

The body-mind feedback loop, when watched closely enough, can reveal what is true and what isn't.  Heehee...but the body doesn't mind finding out/seeing the truth nearly as much as the mind seems to!!  :)

Thanks for the babble space.  It's fun sometimes.  :)
--Misha


Misha

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Re: Trying to find/see the core belief!
« Reply #388 on: February 11, 2018, 01:37:47 am »
Big weird realization:

I had you tube on, was doing some research on something while working on a design drawing.  You know how the videos queue up and keep delivering if you don't interfere?  Somehow there was a series of vids of people (mostly kids) being able to hear for the first time, due to either new hearing aids or new cochlear implants.  No idea why they appeared.  The computer was out of reach so I didn't change the queue.

Stay with me here...

The very first one paralyzed me--and I watched several in a row from a distance before realizing the reason a gong was going off in me was bc those kids' experiences were the same as whatever it was that happened to me (I still haven't found words I like--your words and others do not capture it [nothing can I guess]).  The sudden focused awareness and attention ARRESTING everything--all because the awareness suddenly perceives an entire layer of what's perceivable now that wasn't perceivable before.

Interestingly some kids cried, some laughed and were excited, and some just got really still and gaped and smiled vaguely.  I think my Misha-ness had/has (still!) mostly the latter reaction, heehee...a lot of the time I still feel like I am just really still, gaping and smiling vaguely.  (Harhar!) 

In any case, what a weird and perfect metaphor....





Jed McKenna

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Re: Trying to find/see the core belief!
« Reply #389 on: February 13, 2018, 04:46:35 am »
"belief" is like a knowing there is a "proof" of what is true that is available, even if you don't have the proof just yet. Substitute ''faith'' for ''belief''. In either case, there is only hopelessness... because none of that is ''knowing''.

Got you mphor, thanks for sharing.... he says gazing off into space....

Love ya, Jed.