INVISIBLE GURU FORUM
Jed Rants => Truth Realization => Topic started by: Jed McKenna on September 11, 2016, 11:42:49 am
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Dear Members:
Think back five, ten, twenty years and contemplate this. Your body has changed over that time, virtually every cell has been rebuilt of replaced... your memories are different... your thinking capacity has changed as well.. but something has remained the same. Some small sense of you has always been the same. What is that awareness, that intangible thingy?
Can you find it or sense it.
Love ya, Jed.
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The tooth has the change, the finger has the change, the age has the change, the memory has the change, the thought has the change, the environment has the change, what has not changed?
Space?
Consciousness?
I'm stuck here. "Consciousness"
Wait for the "real" arrival. ::)
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yes
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The one thing I share with the old me seems to be continuity. A story line, that's all.
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Is you story line the same as it was when you where five years old? Or at you saying that you had a story line when five and one now, but not the same?
Cheers,
Jed.
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there must be a mechanism to keep the story congruent, i think im a story with sub-stories like a movie with chapters , and scenes, but really i dont know if they are totally true, i have relatives and they can confirm some aspects of my stories, but i dont know really if that happened, when it comes to only rely on me to confirm my stories, i think im trusting so much on my memory. i am aware of having that story, maybe i have it ,
so what is that sense of self or awareness? is this sense of existance something fundamental for all
and there is just a sense of separation imposed? in other words is this sense of existance eternal and there is just the illusion of separation?
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I think memories provide continuity or a story. But there had to be something before the story to even be witness to the story. Like when you're born, most of us don't have memories before a certain time. We can recall some kind of first memory, but we must have been present even before that to have had that first memory. So we definitely weren't the story or continuity then, but we somehow existed before that to be able to COME to the story and continuity.
(And although I'm saying then, before we have memories, I recognize that that moment is right now because that memory also happened Now. I guess my Now is currently just more cluttered with things like memories and self stories. : )
(One last edit. I'm reading the Wile E. Coyote bit of Dreamstate at the moment which is a VERY fun section to read, thanks for that bit, and it seems to work very well as a parallel to this particular forum thread topic. : )
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I mean to say it is one story that links current me to five-year-old me. The continuity seems pretty convincing because of the speed at which we experience our lives. My story from yesterday is pretty close to my story from today- there is almost the same stuff going on, I have pretty much the same concerns and motives. That gradual day by day shift makes it seems like the decades-long story is a unified whole. That, to my reckoning, is the only thing that links me to the five year old me.
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Yes i sence it....
I know i'm aware of it but never thought about it's awareness.
Is it aware as you suggest?
I don't know....
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To whom it may concern, I am new here and have been on this path a very long time alone in a community that just doesn't seem to understand or believe I'm serious or care. I have found mckenna's no bull sh&t way of treating people works for me and my bad self image. I only talk in I statements becouse I don't want to insinuate I'm speek Ing for anyone and that this is just my perspective. Just looking for guidance at times and hoping I can find some here. I'm not expecting answers just experience that I can relate to. I hope I'm not intruding here in someway but it's only the second place I've been refers to in my search for my perspective.
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5, 10, 20, all the same. only ever here now.
i tried running it forward too. looking forward 5, 10, 20 years, looking for the i am in the future. still only ever here now, but i noticed something, the future seemed less cluttered, as if the past held debris, and the future held less. who knows what the future holds?
the little bastard says, 'i do. it holds nothin', just like it never happened.'
see, i's all over, yet only ever here now.
it's not a small sense. the i am is becoming the most obvious thing in the world. it's veryhereallthenotime. at least, that's how i would describe it in this moment.
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I think, more accurately, the intangible thingie is the belief in that story/ego.
What I truly am is what I always am. What I think I am comes and goes. The intangible thingie is really just "what is". "What is" is the actual thing that I share with the five year old but the thing I think that I share is a belief. Then again the idea the five year old exists of ever did is just a belief to me now.
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it's not a small sense. the i am is becoming the most obvious thing in the world. it's veryhereallthenotime. at least, that's how i would describe it in this moment.
untruth unrealization reads something like, 'if you are not seeing everyday what a small understanding you were clinging to, then you are not progressing.'
SA requires the same thing the game does- a willingness to temporarily suspend disbelief.
that intangible thingie? at first it seemed like it was the i am, but then the i dropped, and eventually the am, then it seemed it was just ... capacity. but capacity isn't intangible, especially along what appears to be the boundary.
so what is that thingie?
looking again... can i call up a memory of five years ago? yes.
now, what is the same within that memory/image that seems to be the same herenow?
perceiving.
is that true?
maybe not, but it seems truthish.
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Oh yes, when I was little i Remember hiding under the couch when it presses on to my early orienting mind, and before IT GOT scary Like say before 3years old, its feels AS IT was out There and every where, like now^^
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Hi Jed. I came here now with a question about the "I am" and found this thread. Cool. So what are we before "am-ness"? I have no memory of anything prior to maybe 5 yo. And what is the darkness that comes? I was not. Then I was. Then I will be not again. If there is no thing like a body to hold consciousness, what is there? A stupid question if ever there was one. This "I am" that I can seem to reside in is just another dead end isn't it? Without the body, the brain, there is nothing. There is no "sense" of nothing. There is just nothing. So what I really am is? The thing that wants to know cannot know. Without this thing there is not just nothing but there is no wondering about nothing. What I am folds in on itself .....:
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Hi, it's my first day here and just new reading your info as of yesterday, so I'm not sure how to conform to the rules so if I'm not abiding please inform me. Also, forming words into sentences isn't easy for me so am not sure how to do the 200 word thing so here goes....
This "I Am" issue has been a dead end because as I inquire i get that there is no I and no AM in which to have an I AM experience.
To whom has it arisen?
A Self who wants to perpetuate the duality with something in a bigger I, and a wider AM; as opposed to the little i of ego and the lesser aware experiences it creates.
It's a layer of belief of the Self that has graduated from ego? (that's not actually a question.)
So in essence i perceive the I AM as a further trick and trappery belief system to keep duality going but from a ''HIGHER'' b.s. perspective that comes off as more enlightened than the ego and still sought after to be attained.
There really is no I AM.... unless 'you' want there to be.
Are "you" wanting there to be? i am not wanting there to be. Are we one wanting the same thing? Clearly no. This is where my inquiry is using ''others'' as a sounding board to establish where this root duality is coming from and why?
This "I Am" creates another layer of ''experience'' with the "I AM" as the observer?? (that's a question with 2 question marks.)
who/what wants there to be an I AM and why?
for what purpose? Obviously to experience some I AM'ness stuff.
Is that I AMness stuff more duality? Is it better daulity? A better dual game? Or in it does it imply that somehow the I AM will bring the dual back into focus of one through going out into a dual sense of I AM something?
If so why choose this game?
The I am as all of it and none of it is further playtime. Then why perpetuate the illusion of it as I am?
Is this more internal/external ideas fun game play dreamtime?
??? :o
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I'm gonna try condense the above attempt at using words to describe.
It doesn't get anymore self important than a I AM.
That I AM is a super-duper graduated ego; and it likes to go by the word Self too.
Why?
What is One getting out of a different level of observing duality? especially when there is nothing to watch and only ONE is watching?
I guess it's really just time to stop watching any of the duality games that usually offer a ton of reasons as to why they should be watched and/or split off in experienced.
This is only fun if you have enough split off perspective to view it as such. And having a like for bds&m is a criteria as well since that's the foundation of the game here in this focus point.
To view it as non-emotional detached you have to split off to disassociate which is still more duality; but now the word 'enlightened and Self' get to be attached to this perspective point of I AM.
When i went into the Self i discovered the Self likes the games and beliefs as much as the ego, but it's a different level of them both to maintain the illusion of the duality game.
Thanks for the soundingboard.
I guess the choice is clear now.
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After all that writing, you are still under the illusion that there is a you who might have a ''choice''? Is this really your experience? Are you creating your thoughts? Are you creating what you do about them? It's your experience that counts so, please write back if you like.
Love ya, Jed.
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Here iam , typing this reply in a loo. I get a doubt if I'm really in a loo. I sense some shame that comes with being exposed - what if it's not a loo and I'm imagining it... It's not a comfortable experience.
Where am I ? What is something there is to be ashamed of ? No I'm not consoling myself or other sentient beings , I'm only asking a question - where am I ? What is that which is causing shame ? Is that true ?
Bugger Jed !
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It's a better way to spend your time than reading Readers Digest.
Cheers.
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What illusion Jed? It's all well and good to talk about how there is no one here making decisions but those are just words. It sure seems like whatever is perceiving all of this is making decisions. A decision was made to write this. Decisions are made daily by this perceiving entity. And those decisions are accompanied by a sense of culpability by the same perceiver. That is my direct experience. If I decide to drink too much alcohol then I feel bad physically and then there is an emotion that flows in, secondary to a belief about drinking, that makes me feel bad. And all of it seems to come from this I AM place. Without this "person" which is contained within this body, there is nothing.
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Yes indeed, there is nothing, but it's a very full nothing.
Love ya, Jed.
P.S. Do you know what your next thought is going to be? Look and see.
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You tryin' to frustrate me? No. I don't know what my next thought will be. I don't know it until it arises. I know it can arise from the sensation works around me.....blah blah blah.
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Contemplating that we don't know what our next thought is going to be seems quite revealing. How can we still believe that "we" are thinking? why do we consider it something "we" are doing?
.. then what's left of "us" ?
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Excellent PM... who the hell is doing all this thinking?
Love ya, Jed.
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Hm this sound like what I'm picking up from Nisgardatta, the idea that the personality kind of works on autopilot. When assuming the position of the witness it's easier for me to just surrender to what's going on, not feel any hangups about what this character I'm playing is doing.
Do I post this? I donno. I'll surrender to it even if it's the ego doing it. It's not my choice. Just something to watch and learn from.
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Not being able to predict the next thought and therefore, obviously, despite the feeling, not being the one sending this message, is kind of interesting. Thinking of a bigger picture though - never ever having done anything, never being able to do anything even in theory, and therefore being pretty much nonexistent and totally meamingless is, on the other hand, a bit eerie. It only seems as a problem for the feeling of being someone though. Ego is the only problem there can be, and it is not.
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Good work Syrian, now further.
Love ya, Jed
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who the hell is doing all this thinking?
No one, there was just the illusion / thought that someone had to be behind having them. Like the actual perception of the screen, it is, no need for more, the rest is imagination, illusion, ideas. Perceptions are real, I is not.
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Yes. Thoughts happen and then we take ownership of them. It's what we do. It's where we're comfy. So for f's sake all of this is going on and then I take ownership of it all. Terrific! Who created this miasma? And why is the syrup so difficult to climb out of? (Rhetorical).
So I'll just keep going along trying to distance myself from what I believed all along was myself; I mostly don't care for that guy.
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Perceptions are real, I is not.
Perceptions are real, thoughts are real, even that "I" is real and every illusion that this "I" has and experiences is real... everything you encounter on planet earth and in the universe is real, but they are all not true.
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A human being is a form of artificial intelligence.
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O.K. Frits, real but not true... I am very careful what I call real because, in Truth, I have no standard for real. I guess it's a (or was a) bit of a cop-out. I call things illusions and I call my experience hallucinations... years ago I adopted that approach because I wanted to be more careful about believing things, at the time it was a sorta mechanism to keep me on the straight and narrow, yeh, sure...
One day, while doing my S/A, I go it!!! at a cellular level... this is all not-real and we are hallucinating everything, including our selves, into an apparent/illusory being and beingness. My b.s. verbiage had become my reality, perhaps better expressed as my non-reality. The wonder and freedom of not being anything or anyone was beyond words. All there is is Truth, what I call in the Series, ''infinite capacity for all that is''. Even illusion needs somewhere to appear to be, an illusion requiring an illusory context, in order to maintain further illusion and then, all combined... it appears in The Infinite Truth as the world we currently appear to inhabit.
There is nothing but Truth, and I mean NOTHING... but much appears to be, for your entertainment. It is staggeringly simple, boundlessly without limits, sights beyond vision, hearing beyond sound, sensing beyond any feeling, and everyone wants to capture it, control it, reduce it to their human experience... and then b i t c h because it doesn't seem to fit their expectations. Your human experience fits within Truth, but you can be very sure that Truth does not fit within your human experience. Un-explainable, un-imaginable, un-foreseeable, un-everything... it just ''is''.
Thank you Frits, you always seem to provoke the best in me (or, I hallucinate so) and I love you for it.
Cheers, Jed.
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People want material things or experiences because they believe those things are real. Material things can only provide what they can. People should not expect more from them, for instance should not expect those things to make them happy.
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My pleasure, Jed.
But in the end it's only words trying to point at the unspeakable. Of course only Truth IS and everything else IS NOT, but everything appears to be (to me it apparently appears to be, anyway) and so we might as well pretend, or hallucinate (as you put it), it is real... while knowing it's not true or Truth.
If you think about it, it's a huge brainfvck and very funny... better not to think about it.
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Got it...
Love ya, Jed.
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Yes, i can sense this I what seems to be the same as always. Its not the idea of who i am, that changes with the time to. This, being aware, awareness is really hard to grasp, actualy trying to see, experiance it, naming it describing it seems impossible. Really hard finding it pinpointing it and sensing it.
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... stop trying!
Love ya, Jed.
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Ego may get bored and want to change the scenery, but the truth is I will always be with myself. Even if I am with others, I am alone, because no one can really know me.
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I'm reading through the conversation and think, how someting that is Truth can be not real? Could you really encounter something that is not true? This is the stage I'm at.... The content of hallucination is not real, but the fact that I'm hallucinating and can't seem to be able to stop, IS real.
Like a guy watching tv is real, but what happens on the tv isn't... And then there is another thought that follows: the guy that doesn't exist watches tv that doesn't exist (hallucinates). And it depresses me
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Hi Jed
This is my first time writing and I have a question in regards to the I am(ness) when I was about 10yrs old I heard one of my mom's friends say something that I thought was mean about me, as I sat there weeping, feeling devastated a sensed there was a watching ( really don't know what to call) I just felt watched and it pretty much made it impossible for me to feel sorry for myself, that sense has never gone away, is that the I am ness you are talking about?
Thanks
Des
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Hi there:
Interesting... do you feel like that sense thingy is you or someone else?
Love ya, Jed.
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that's a good question, I don't have an answer I've asked myself that question a few times it's just there
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Let me be a bit more clear, the memory of the incident feels like the "me" was being watched, so it felt separate, after that...I can't say it's it ever been so distinct again. As life has progressed there is always the ups and downs of emotions, over time I don't get as caught in them (as much or as long :), but that distinct sense of being watched that separate feeling is not there as it was that one time as a small child.
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LOL....now I understand why I see people keep talking....after you ask a question...
I also wanted to say that it felt like the person who was sobbing(the 10year old me if I call it that) felt like in being watched the tears somehow felt fake) that the whole experience of crying was fake. basically I couldn't really feel sorry for myself, but again I can't say for sure if it was separate or mee, it feels like I should say it was separate but it was a long, long time ago...all I can say is that experience changed me but not is some huge way or anything
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so what I am realizing is that that experience left me feeling like I was actor and that's how I've felt my whole life, that I was just acting my different parts but at the same time I am identified with the me, so that would have created a split, or something. ???hmmmm....am I overthinking this?
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Sounds like it to me.
Love ya, Jed.
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thanks :)
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And the answer is...drum roll, please.
Consciousness!!!
Bingo!!!
Do I get a prize?
I am the same as I ever was. No different. I can't even remember what I was like 5 10 20 years ago.
Shoot, I can't see myself, except in a mirror, and is that me? A little less light and the image in the mirror changes. Is that me with light or is that me with less light?
IDK.
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Is that awareness, that intangible thingy the source of our authentic desire or the spiritual sense of rightness versus wrongness within our character in the dreamstate?
The sorce of our authentic identity and ability in the intergrated state of dreamstate?Or the socurce of subtle permission and everyone’s unique pattern and quotidian miracle? The source of individuality of soul in the dreamstate?
This concept let me recall what Milan Kundera said; he said every character in his novel (I think it's the same as our character in Brahman's dream)has a metaphor or essence beyond the appearance of his every actions, thoughts, or feelings. Which is the German term ''Grund''. Everyone has a Grund craved in our heart, that is the permanent cause of our every actions, where our destiny grows.
Just like you said, these all things are only phenomenon within the dreamstate which isn’t ture and can’t understand. What I really care about is that awareness is related to my unique pattern? If so, figuring out that will help me open my eyes to see the patteren or become H/A? Or all this stuff are only the things distracting me from going further and becoming H/A?
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The things distracting your are you confused mind as reflected in your language. What specifically is your question. Only one please.
Thanks in advance.
Love ya, Jed.
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I remember images of me and other people from childhood. Where are those people now? Only within my mind. Were they ever outside my mind? I look at some people now and believe they are real. Are these images real? Do they tell me the truth? Can I trust them? The message sent by the images I see is based on my beliefs (accumulated wrong knowing) and is actually coming from my mind.
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That's about it.
Love ya, Jed.
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I thought I knew everything when my universe was limited.
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Of course, that's why humans limit things from relationships to travel plans... so they can dream that they understand (and control) what cannot be understood or controlled. Man plans and the Gods laugh.
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If I know I am the absolute, everything is easy and boring. If I don't know who I am, I may believe I am weak, helpless, so getting things seems worthy, I enjoy playing games, feeling important if I succeed in anything.
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So... what do you really know Lian.
Love ya, Jed.
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I know nothing. Whatever I believe I know, along with its context, is in my mind.
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;) ;) ;)
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'I' is a thought. When I think of myself, the thought 'I' goes in a certain direction, manifesting my ego. When someone else thinks of himself or herself, the thought 'I' goes in a different direction. That's why I am myself and I cannot be others, while others cannot be me. But 'I' is just a thought. Without it, is there any person left or just an undifferentiated reality?
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Everyone lives in one's own cell. That means each person believes different lies. These lies come into conflict because each ego wants everything for itself. However, people lie to each other, so they seem to respect each other, to believe each other's lies (they all close their eyes to not see the obvious, practice doublethink). If they saw the truth, they would probably kill each other. In war, people probably come close to honesty.
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As I expand my consciousness, I realize I already had the things I once wanted to acquire.
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I Remember having one of those euphonies with respect to seeing that only the appearances, which include the form or the body/world change, almost makes you feel that you haven't moved an inch, like where would, or could you move to, now of course if one is identifying what one is, with what just is, then ones moving, but not that is utterly not that. Hopefully this makes no sense, cannot be understood, but probably will be. OH WELL. you win some, you loose some. 8) ;D
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Congrats Winston, absolute baffle-gab. Love it, and you.
Jed.
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Actually, I understand Winston.
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;) ;) ;)
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i must be stupid, because i don't understand virtually anything...
to me there is just one lie, and expanding the infinite must be a hard job
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"Some small sense of you has always been the same"
Can we be completely contained by this small sense? Only consciousness remains unchanged? And if the "I am" is everything, and is the truth (unchanging) then > nothing changed and nothing can ever change.
I think I can feel the **** sometimes but if I ever lived it I'd be forever alone (understand I was and will be forever alone) - and that's a scary one.
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The I am is definitely not everything and unchanging JJ.
Love ya, Jed.
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(understand I was and will be forever alone) - and that's a scary one.
jjtech. I've felt several times this fear of "realising I'm the only one and feeling alone" and what gives me peace is the realisation that the untruth / egoic me is not alone, it is surrounded of other apparent people, and the True me, awareness, is not an individual, so sure it can experience feeling alone, but also friendship, infatuation, motherhood, ... but all these are part of the human tragedy, don't apply directly to awareness.
It's like if you teach a parrot to say "I'm sad because I can't write poems", it can look sad to people but doesn't affect at all the parrot. In this example people are the untrue egos, and the parrot is awareness.
At the same time I think we shouldn't avoid the sadness you are referring if it happens, it may be a door for our egos to admit their limitations, and it is always another experience enriching the movie in awareness.
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The I am is definitely not everything and unchanging JJ.
What do you mean? how can we know the Truth of something else than "I am" and when do we experience a change on that?
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how can we know the Truth of something else than "I am" and when do we experience a change on that?
You can't and you don't.
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how can we know the Truth of something else than "I am" and when do we experience a change on that?
You can't and you don't.
You got me! But what about awareness, can awareness know the Truth of something else than "I am" and experience a change on that?
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Words and opinions matter little. Find out for yourself.
Love ya, Jed.
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how can we know the Truth of something else than "I am" and when do we experience a change on that?
You can't and you don't.
You got me! But what about awareness, can awareness know the Truth of something else than "I am" and experience a change on that?
You may question if "I am" is the Truth. If it's not, then what could change? And if it is, what needs change?
Answer that and "awareness" is of no importance.
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"The I am is definitely not everything and unchanging JJ."
what can change about I'm/consciousness?
what else is there?
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I am a soul, a spiritual being inhabiting a material body, a human being. Most souls inhabiting people identify with their bodies and with the stories created around them. Knowing that I'm not the body, I can have a more realistic point of view about it. For instance, I, as a spiritual being, may be infallible, but the body is not. The body is a relative thing, an object, with clear limitations. Similarly, all the stories about people are centered around finite, material things. Knowing this, one can be more realistic and not a drama queen.
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Is that true, Lian? Do you really exist as anything? A soul? A spiritual being in a material body? Sounds like a lot of Buddhist manure to me. You're not the body, sure, but you're not you either. So what's left?
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Everything is an embodiment of no self. We are actors in a theater play. I get the humans expectation factor. If you teach a dog to sit and after a dozen attempts he appears to sit down, the next thing one could probably expect is for that dog to sit again cause it somehow worked. Same with Truth. You can have had glimpses of insights, but like being said in another Jed rant, it's just an experience. It's dogshit now. Further! There is no thinking about it, or knowing it.
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I have divided my mind and now I can pretend I am not alone. Instead of seeing One, I see many.
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The problem with accepting I do not know what I am is that I would have to give up the beliefs about what I am.
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Got it Lian:
So, are you saying that your limitation (jail) is better for you than freedom (H/A, T/R) and you don't want to drop one for the other because it would entail giving up (false) beliefs (all beliefs are false because they change from time to time).
I know I have said that T/R does not submit to human logic, and it doesn't, but for the present purpose and because we are talking in the human dream, I don't get the logic of you thinking.
Note: I always leave open the possibility that I have misinterpreted what you said so don't hesitate to clarify if so moved.
Love ya, Jed.
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The one thing is me...the witness. Anything else is changing, faster or slower. This thing remains, me living (witnessing) this life. The sense of identity is given by the fact that i am witnessing through this slowly changing body, this point of view, or "geographic" location, and rememberance. It follows that it is rather funny how i manage (or how cursed i am) to wake up each morning in the same point of view. Some dark forces must be at play. Some forces that escape my witnessing. Oh yeah, like witnessing means i got some superpower... I am everything, and everything is nothing... Aint it great
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Great is good, but doesn't begin to describe full blown T/R. Go for the gusto and nothing else.
Love ya, Jed.
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"... but something has remained the same. Some small sense of you has always been the same...."
When I 'forget' everything, the world, my experiences, who or what I think I am, memories, just everything, I come to a sense of something that's always been there. It's home, it feels familiar, like the ultimate safety because it has never changed.
I could find it by a kind of sinking, yes just letting go, though I didn't use those words. Before I got into spirituality it was easier to find, I was still innocent then. More honest. If I was worried or in fear or the world sucked I ( sometimes) went there, to that place.
The 'I' got small and smaller and what I found was not . No 'I am' over there, and don't know if I would call it awareness. words are swords cutting apart.
j.
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:o :o :o
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According to my experiences Absolute Awareness becomes identified with the IAM and identities due to clogged cognitive activity
After enlightenment both the "IAM" and the "I" vanish... Leaving there only the infinite, fresh and perfect Absolute/Parabrahman
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Yup....