INVISIBLE GURU FORUM

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Michiel on September 02, 2017, 06:06:41 am

Title: Practical
Post by: Michiel on September 02, 2017, 06:06:41 am
Hi Jed,

Are there any practical tips, like actual steps which lead to T/R?
All the vague, abstract stuff isn't leading to anything.

Thanks, Michiel
Title: Re: Practical
Post by: Jed McKenna on September 02, 2017, 01:13:03 pm
Michiel:

Welcome to the forum. Have you done S/A?

Give me an idea of what has failed you.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: Practical
Post by: Michiel on September 03, 2017, 12:08:37 pm
Thanks Jed, I will look into that. Are there any resources of examples how to get along with Spiritual Autolysis?

Thanks in advance! - Michiel
Title: Re: Practical
Post by: Jed McKenna on September 03, 2017, 12:24:47 pm
It's very simple. Write something that's true... and then, of course, question the truth of what you write.

Love ya, Jed (is that true?)
Title: Re: Practical
Post by: Michiel on September 25, 2017, 12:02:19 pm
Thanks for the tip Jed.

I'll be honest, I'm skipping on the search for T/R at the moment. First and foremost nothing is to be had there, but rather I will focus on making my life comfortable, both Now, but also in progression to the future. Money is apparently a thing here on Earth.

Maybe I don't skip the subject entirely, but I've got a new perspective on the subject.
I wonder if you ever heard of the Dutch writer Jan Geurtz? He wrote a book called "Addicted to Love". The subject is Love, but basically it goes without saying that it can be applied to any subject that the mind gets addicted to.

He explains there are certain workings in the mind which take the mind away from its original state which according to him is "Being... honest, powerful, soft, smart, spontaneous, good/loving, social/altruistic, unique/creative".

When the mind starts rejecting itself it will start becoming (or thinking about itself): "I am... corrupt/dishonest, weak, stupid, weird, evil/guilty, anti-social/egotistic, mediocre."

Even further perverted, it will start rejecting those thoughts, because it doesn't like thinking bad about itself, so it becomes: "formal/rigid, cool, invulnerable/distant/self-assured, know-it-all/or anti-intellectual/free-person, everything under control, always kind/afraid to hurt others/"nice guy", subservient/forcibly social/helpaholic, wanting to stand out/always disagreeing with others.

It becomes more complicated after that until the person fabricated a more or less succesful "image", it seems stable and operating, until of course something happens, change happens, and than the image doesn't work, but shows the suffering from keeping on either attaching to a certain thought about self, or dissociating from certain aspects of the self. The mind keeps approving or rejecting certain characteristics of the self and other people. But more or less underneath this gigantic facade there lies the real Self of Being what it really is.

It seems sensible. Thinking certain things about myself or others seems so painful. Yet when I keep things simple by being honest and soft, there isn't any pain. Just giving up the trying to be something, to create an image of success I need to hold on to.

Love, Michiel
Title: Re: Practical
Post by: Jed McKenna on September 25, 2017, 12:11:20 pm
Thanks for sharing... do you have a question?

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: Practical
Post by: Michiel on September 25, 2017, 12:32:18 pm
Haha, yeah now that I come to think of it, maybe one:
Does this resonate with the idea of T/R? Or H/A?
It does seem truthful albeit all part of the human experience.

Love, Michiel
Title: Re: Practical
Post by: Jed McKenna on September 26, 2017, 01:01:54 am
Well, my take is he is big on describing a problem/challenge in the human experience. I prefer to only touch on that and spend more time the solution. Just my take.

My test is ...'''does it work?". I suggest you try it and apply it.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: Practical
Post by: Michiel on September 26, 2017, 06:28:25 am
Yes I will apply it. I got into the "practical" section of the book which instructs on a simple meditation exercise, starting out with 5 minutes of concentrating on the breath, (which can be extended when it becomes easier) when distracted bringing it back kindly to the breath. And during day-time activities taking small 1 minute meditations to become aware of "Being", to get in touch of just Being more and more.

Love, Michiel
Title: Re: Practical
Post by: Jed McKenna on September 26, 2017, 11:15:16 pm
O.K. Now go do it... like your life depended on it, and never ever quit.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: Practical
Post by: Michiel on December 10, 2017, 06:56:27 pm
Well. I got distracted again. Yay.

Doesn't seem there is any capability to hold onto anything. *shrugs*

Alright. So I have been pondering on and off for a while and something has been bothering me:
1. What's the point in reaching enlightenment? (Nothing, I know, you already answered that)
2. I've been managing to actually gradually improving the quality of my life. There doesn't seem anything worth doing more than improving the quality of my life and others. So why bother enlightenment?
3. Like seriously, what's the pay-off for enlightenment? Either it has to be like the best thing or not worth pursuing whatsoever.
That leads to the following like serious question: Why would you help people reach enlightenment, unless it actually helps them attain anything?

Hope you're holding up well there Jed, like good stuff happening to you. Bye!
Title: Re: Practical
Post by: Jed McKenna on December 11, 2017, 01:30:19 am
Good questions... Buddha is purported to have said he gained absolutely nothing from enlightenment. I'm pretty sure he got ''it''.

There is no answer to ''why'' questions because all reasons ''why'' are rationalization by the mind in order that it doesn't look stupid and without reasons. Everything happens before the minds knows about it, then .oooo1 seconds later the mind jumps in and make up a reason.

Urges, desires thoughts, etc. arise from the Mystery/Void, and action then takes place and mind jumps in to claim ownership. You can find the process in you if you are very diligent.

The answer to ''Why'' is ''because'' or ''seemed like a good idea at the time''. Every other answer is a made up lie.... wise people don't bother with ''why'' and prefer ''how''. It yields more useful information.

Love ya, Jed.

P.S. Thanks for asking, I am well, healthy, happy and enjoying this dream immensely.
Title: Re: Practical
Post by: Michiel on December 11, 2017, 07:46:02 am
Thanks for your elaborate answers Jed!

Haha, what you said here:

''seemed like a good idea at the time''

Reminds me of a different quote:

"The story so far:
In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."

Now as to reply to the content of what you had written:
It doesn't seem I'm very inclined to focus on "how", I had previously experienced several "ego-deaths" and they were rather uncomfortable. It probably wasn't "it", but it might have skimmed the surface, so to speak.
Would there be any reason for seeing through the illusion/dream/Maya being a nasty experience? I think it might miss the point.

I believe I had read somewhere previously before "enlightenment chop wood, after enlightenment chop wood." Or something along those lines.

Would it be accurate to say that there aren't actually any borders or space between one person/object to another? Simply the appearance of it being such. And thus all is connected/one. Yet there is this play one could call Maya which makes it appear as if there are these differences of locality.

If this information is linked to Truth, it would have implications, like if consciousness were to be enlightenment there would be a realisation of all being one, and thus whatever appears to happen is simply a play of Maya to continue and keep the illusion alive. Change and play for the sake of the continuation of and on itself.

Alright. So you write: Spiritual Autolysis is the "how" one can get further on the path to enlightenment. Yet I observe my non-inclination towards it, thus it can only be that it's not meant to reach enlightenment (yet).

Sorry for the long read, I know you prefer short texts. But I reckon it doesn't matter. Or does it? Haha...

Whatever, have another good day :)
Title: Re: Practical
Post by: Jed McKenna on December 11, 2017, 12:09:38 pm
Borders are an appearance... definitely. Nothing is linked to Truth because nothing is... only Truth Is.. that's what needs to be realized. All else is endless silly folly.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: Practical
Post by: Mori on December 21, 2017, 05:20:14 pm
If only Truth is, than all and nothing are Truth.
The appearance of change, which you call Maya is what keeps the illusion alive that there could be anything but Truth.
Yet Maya is also Truth.

There is only further.

Seeing this... I don't know anymore. Since you're part of the play it seems pointless to even write this. There is something unnerving about this.
I don't know any otherway than to just go further.
Title: Re: Practical
Post by: Mori on December 21, 2017, 05:43:39 pm
Wondering if there would be something that doesn't further create drama/Maya... I mean only Maya can respond...
Title: Re: Practical
Post by: Jed McKenna on December 22, 2017, 02:11:00 am
Only Maya/ego can respond until you see the game, perceive her tricks... and then she has no power over you.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: Practical
Post by: Michiel on December 27, 2017, 12:25:33 pm
Just for further clearance, I want to break down what you write here:
"Only Maya/ego can respond until you see the game, perceive her tricks... and then she has no power over you."

Maya/ego - all that appears

Only Maya/ego - Thus all that appears can make up stuff, which is anything whatsoever

can - So it doesn't have to, I don't have any evidence it can be any other way, it has always done so, so far

respond - respond to what? It responds on its own accord right? Is there anything it can respond to? It can only be or not be, if there is Truth, separate from Maya, how can it influence Maya? Can it or not influence what Maya is giving?

until you see the game - That would assume there is a you to see a game. A game is being perceived, but whatever choice is made by a "you", it can only further continue the game, since the game is on whatever a "you" is doing.

perceive her tricks - Well there are tricks perceived, but the tricks are always part of anything which appears to be appearing. There is always a catch which grabs the attention. There is no discontinuation possible, since there is always some sort of movement going on with the props in the play.

and then she has no power over you - Simply the perception of tricks does not make the tricks disappear, there is simply the perception of tricks. Thus the power is always in the hands of Maya. There is no on and off switch, there is just On, because Maya can always come up with new tricks.

you. - Which you? The you in the play? Is there a you outside the play? Isn't the concept of a "you" inherently part of a play?

It doesn't seem like there is any way out of the play. I cannot conceptualise any way there could be a way out of the play. There is no answer to that question because there is no evidence of anything other than the play. Even a "going out of the play" is part of the play.

The evidence I've found thus far is that there is no way to go beyond what lies in front of me, which is what appears.

Anyway, further Jed. I wonder if you know anything to get through it, rather than keep on working with it and surface it. It should be apparent, rather than just more useless words, if it is any worth in the pursuit of Truth.
Title: Re: Practical
Post by: Jed McKenna on December 30, 2017, 06:29:13 am
Back to basics, only one thread per member. I believe Mori is the offender here. Please start you own thread and we can pursue issues through that.

To Michiel:

Yes, I know the way through. It's a obvious as it can be... to me. Stop trying to analyse things. You are looking for truth in reason and mind. Don't be silly. If it was there don't you think zillions would have it by now? Come on... get a grip.. it's simple... GIVE UP TRYING. Let go of all your illusion and you will have it.

How do you know what is illusory... simply everything you perceive is illusion. Now you know the secret... GO DO IT!

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: Practical
Post by: Michiel on December 30, 2017, 09:40:10 am
Well. Alright. ;)
Title: Re: Practical
Post by: Michiel on January 27, 2018, 08:07:04 am
Well then, here I am again. Seems I'm ever so caught in drama around me, about me and without me. There's no out, there's just through and further.
If I could ever make sense of it all, not anymore.
It seems I tried to make sense of it, but it leads to nothing. Nothing I do will lead to anything but further.
I'm giving up on the idea of enlightenment.

Michiel
Title: Re: Practical
Post by: Michiel on March 08, 2018, 11:17:48 am
I'm at odds here Jed. Seriously. I cannot make any sense of any of it anymore.
Either there is some kind of golden means whereby people can live and all would be well, or there is just chaos, nothing good, no way to act proper.
If everyone would live to their own perfect standards, there will be no way it can settle into one standard to which all would be harmonious, maya just keeps on creating new drama, it just does, it never ends. You can try whatever you like, it's just the way it is.
There is no way out of chaos/maya.

Even if I did everything I could and hold to that, maya keeps on creating new chaos.
Even if I did NOTHING and hold to that, maya keeps on creating new chaos.
There is no way out, further or through. It just keeps on keeping on....

What is left? I don't know anymore.
Am I missing a point?

Much love, Michiel
Title: Re: Practical
Post by: Jed McKenna on March 08, 2018, 06:47:53 pm
I don't think it's missing the point... what you are getting the point. Would not chaos be the most generative way a dream could be, continually introducing novel points of view, i.e. new dreamers.

If you want perfect order, probably the closes you can find is Germany... and that's not very close lately. However, Germans that I have met tell me it's too orderly and just boring as heck. Of course, the only Germans I meet are those who have left Germany...hmm...

Well... I don't get what's wrong with chaos...how do you even know it's chaos? To some other person (perhaps form another culture, like hmmm.. Mars) would find your world bored them to tears. So what specifically is it that is chaotic in your experience and what's so bad about that.

I'm sitting a restaurant, outside, and the wind is blowing on my face... now that's pretty chaotic, this way, that way, then it stops for a moment, and I'm going to try a little experience... I am going to try to make it orderly... oopps here comes breaky so forget that. I'll just let it be. Rather pleasant really.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: Practical
Post by: Michiel on March 14, 2018, 12:22:06 pm
Yeah, I suppose it's either going with it, or against it.
Going against it is uncomfortable, so why not go with it the flow?
Even if the flow is freaking retarded (excuse my vocabulary lol), seriously though, some things make no sense, so I might just as well go with it I guess.
Doesn't matter how or what. Things go the way they go, not the way you expect them to go.

Love, Michiel
Title: Re: Practical
Post by: Jed McKenna on March 15, 2018, 04:32:53 am
Good understanding, now go out and live it in every aspect.. start very small though.

Love ya, Jed.