INVISIBLE GURU FORUM

Jed Rants => Truth Realization => Topic started by: Jed McKenna on December 23, 2018, 02:31:35 am

Title: Stolen from Lazarus - Unknowing
Post by: Jed McKenna on December 23, 2018, 02:31:35 am
A student is here visiting me and in response to some of my ramblings he felt compelled to put what I was saying into a brief writing. He is a far better writer than I am, so I welcomed his efforts. The subject is ''Unknowing'' Your comments are always welcome and I thank him for his good work.

The amount you don’t know dwarfs the amount you do.

We like to think we know a lot.  That’s certainly true, relative to how much we once knew.  As children, our ignorance was so comprehensive.  We knew little about how to orient to the confusing world around us.  Our ability to function in that world was painfully limited.  We’ve fought hard since then to acquire the knowledge we now possess.  Compared to then, our know-how and our information stores are vast.

On the other hand, we look with amusement (or irritation) at the arrogance of adolescents.  Having made such great leaps from infancy, many of them believe they’ve got it all figured out.  It’s so apparent (from the perspective of a parent), that they don’t.

We, however, are no different than the teenagers we mock.  The scale of our knowledge may have increased several-fold since then, but we are no closer than them to figuring it all out.  We just think we are.

Before I try to demonstrate to you how little you still know, let me give you two reasons why this matters.

First, absolutely everything is more complex than we usually think it is.  Complexity is hard for human brains to encompass.  This means you’re probably dramatically oversimplifying even the things you think you know well.  If you want to keep learning about the things that matter most to you, it helps to be aware how much you're oversimplifying now.  Not just you of course - everyone.

Second, and more important, all the best stuff remains in the vast mysterious unknown.  If you’re fixated on the little you already know (and who isn’t), you have little chance to discover all the untapped possibilities obscured by your current, limited knowledge. Now back to the scale of the problem.

Some years ago, the folks at Landmark Education came up with a nifty pie chart.  The pie is the pie of all knowledge.

One small slice represents everything you know.

A considerably larger slice contains everything you know you don’t know: languages you know you can’t speak, skills you know you don’t have, people whose stories you know you’ve never learned, subject areas you know you remain (and may always remain) ignorant about.  That’s already a whole lot of stuff you know you don’t know.

But most of the pie is taken up with the stuff you don’t even know that you don’t know about.  All the areas of study you’ve never heard of, histories and cultures and art forms you’ve had no exposure to, all the wondrous and terrible places and events and people in all the parts of the world it never occurs to you to think about, profound ideas and whole paradigms of thinking no one has ever told you about, most of which you can’t even find out about on the internet!

To expand the scale even further, the reality is there can’t be a pie of all knowledge because knowledge is not finite or fixed.  It’s an endless ocean.  So much that was once known has since been lost: languages no one can speak anymore, cultures that left no record, the countless stories of people no one alive knows or remembers.  And as wide as the sea of lost knowledge is, it could easily be swallowed in the vastness of what has not yet been discovered.  People put old ideas together in new ways all the time, generate ideas never before thought of, make discoveries, innovate.  That's how cultures develop and evolve, at an ever increasing rate.  The sum of all that is known, by all the knowers who can know things, is rapidly expanding into the infinite territory of what could be known.  Humongous doesn’t begin to describe it.

And there we are, knowing the little bit we’ve picked up in the few years we’ve been around, and totally fixated on it.

The little knowledge we have comprises everything we see and think.  Behind all that is the great background of the unknown - mysterious, undefined, and unperceived.  Contemplating the scope of it all can be sublime and inspiring, disorienting and intimidating, thrilling and terrifying.

This unknowing isn't really a problem.  It can be beautiful to recognize how much there is to discover. The problem comes because we’re mesmerized by what we already know.  It’s all we see.  After all, how can you see something you don’t even know to look for?  You can’t.

But what you can do, is remind yourself over and over that the marvelous and dizzying unknown is always hanging out just beyond the edges of your perception.  When you remember there’s an unknown, you take what you already happen to know less seriously.  You hold everything more loosely.  Then, when you’re suffering, or have a problem you’re stuck on, the narrowness of your perspective might become apparent.  You might even strive to widen it.  You might sense how much you’re missing and look beyond the familiar, the well-tread, the habitual.

You probably think, for instance, that you’re a person living a life, having relationships, immersed in a family, in a world, trying to survive, searching for meaning.  But none of those things is really true, because your concepts of self, life, relationship, family, world, survival, meaning - are all dramatically oversimplified.  You know precious little about each of these concepts.  The amount that you don’t know dwarfs the amount that you know.  If you weren’t so fascinated with the dust bunny in the corner, you might turn around and find that you’re living in a castle.

What’s out there beyond what you know isn’t exactly more true.  It simply is more.  When you open to the always-ever-greater unknown in the background, instead of fixating on the countless details in the foreground, you become more you, a you that has little to do with what you thought you were up until now.

Amass more knowledge, and you’ll have a somewhat larger quantity, but it will still be dwarfed by how much you don’t know.  No finite quantity of knowledge can help you make the leap from finite to infinite.  To do that, you have to continually turn your attention to the infinite unknown.  You have to loosen your hold on the little you’ve learned so far, on each of the basic concepts you’ve been using to make sense of your experiences.  If everything becomes more confusing, you’re moving in the right direction.  You’re starting to break loose from your moorings in the known, to disorient. 

You’re becoming - unknowing.
Title: Re: Jed Rant: Stolen from Lazarus
Post by: Frits on December 23, 2018, 07:04:22 am
Very nice piece. I have nothing to ad to it. A famous Dutch writer (Martin Bril) once wrote: "Je mist meer dan je meemaakt, helemaal niet erg." It's actually a poem, and should be written this way:

Je mist meer.
Dan je meemaakt.
Helemaal niet erg.

Which translates into: "You miss more than you experience, not bad at all." — or:

You miss more.
Than you experience.
Not bad at all.

Anyway, this piece made me think of that.
Title: Re: Jed Rant: Stolen from Lazarus
Post by: guest1170 on December 23, 2018, 08:04:30 am
I like this quote:

"Realize the futility of all relative knowledge" - Ramana Maharshi
Title: Re: Jed Rant: Stolen from Lazarus
Post by: Jed McKenna on December 23, 2018, 10:28:58 pm
Thank you both for your comments and contributions. I'll pass them along to the writer. He isn't on the forum, but I'll be having breakfast with him shortly. Yes, and all relative knowledge is made up, otherwise it would be called knowing... and it ain't.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: Jed Rant: Stolen from Lazarus
Post by: guest1170 on December 24, 2018, 08:21:31 am
I call It "seeing", because calling It "knowing" implies the existence of a knower... Works better for me.
Title: Re: Jed Rant: Stolen from Lazarus
Post by: Frits on December 24, 2018, 01:05:08 pm
@ Escapist: The implying of a knower is the same as the implying of a see-er, it happens within the one who hears the message. The implying itself does not make a knower or a see-er real. So if you believe "knowing" implies a knower but "seeing" does not imply a see-er... something is obscuring your vision. This doesn't mean there is a see-er, only that there is also no knower... so who is implying what?

Just my 2 cents within the idea we are still free to interact on a "Jed Rant" like we used to be. If that's changed, my condolences... um... apologies... and this may be deleted. ;D
Title: Re: Jed Rant: Stolen from Lazarus
Post by: guest1170 on December 24, 2018, 01:43:11 pm
No! Only the ego/mind can know something... Your true nature is seeing without a seer. It stands revealed when the knower, the known, and the knowing come to an end
Title: Re: Jed Rant: Stolen from Lazarus
Post by: guest1293 on December 24, 2018, 06:14:03 pm
Searching for the unknown was the original trap door you fell into in the first place. A beautiful thing about being self realized is that rather than concerning yourself with everything you dont know you simply focus on what's going on immediately here and now in your direct experience. What else could possibly exist?

Theres no reason to debate with anyone else. Just, wake up. There is no "theory of everything." You are it.
Title: Re: Jed Rant: Stolen from Lazarus
Post by: guest1170 on December 24, 2018, 07:52:09 pm
Direct experience is Impossible If a mind is still there. I fact, any experience is relative... Only "non-experience" is true, direct, and Absolute. The experiencer must come to an end before Reality can shine.
Title: Re: Jed Rant: Stolen from Lazarus
Post by: guest1293 on December 24, 2018, 10:32:40 pm
"Direct experience isnt possible if the mind is there?" Hmmm, souds kinda like guru speak and doesn't really hold true in my experience...and that's the only thing that's 100 percent verifiable. As in, does not require your agreement. Reality isnt some obscured magical realm I have to go seek out or can only see from a certain angle in the right lighting. It's right in front of me and immediately available. But thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Jed Rant: Stolen from Lazarus
Post by: guest1055 on December 25, 2018, 02:36:30 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTvcpdfGUtQ

BTW, there's a video about how every discovery shows that we are more in the dark than we used to think. "Enlightenment leads to benightedness, science entails nescience".
Title: Re: Jed Rant: Stolen from Lazarus
Post by: guest1170 on December 25, 2018, 06:45:59 am
Yeah J( I mean you can still experience your own reality, but from my standpoint It is fake. If your personal reality works for you, good, no problem being there
Title: Re: Jed Rant: Stolen from Lazarus
Post by: guest1293 on December 25, 2018, 07:40:45 am
Yeah J( I mean you can still experience your own reality, but from my standpoint It is fake. If your personal reality works for you, good, no problem being there

If you think that personal reality is "fake" because you can play games with words that convince your mind as such then feel free to light your pant leg on fire and express that sentiment again. You'll be quickly disillusioned.

When you only concern yourself with your immediate experience rather than all this mysterious "what you dont know" you avoid falling into the seeker trap.
Title: Re: Jed Rant: Stolen from Lazarus
Post by: guest1170 on December 25, 2018, 08:49:47 am
I know nothing... In fact, Reality is beyond knowledge and non-knowledge...
Title: Re: Jed Rant: Stolen from Lazarus
Post by: guest1293 on December 25, 2018, 09:03:40 am
Lol didn't take long to go from "I know nothing" to claiming a fact about reality. That's the tail chase I avoid by staying intimate with what's going on here and now. Aka my personal experience. I cant know anything else so why bother. Happy holidays. ::)
Title: Re: Jed Rant: Stolen from Lazarus
Post by: guest1170 on December 25, 2018, 09:26:06 am
Well, whatever, wont waste my time with this kind of talk. No point talking about "enlightenment", because no one wants It. After enlightenment, its very joyful to discover that your entire life was an illusion, and your misery unreal... You also become free of pain and "gain" some useful siddhis...

 But then  the scary part starts, and you lose EVERYTHING, and you discover that no-self is true self. Life ends with this, you are all alone, not lonely, but ALL alone.

On the plus side, my life is full of joy and fun now. All I can is... Only go for T/R If you have no choice... Otherwise stay with your fantasy, be happy with It, nothing wrong this
Title: Re: Jed Rant: Stolen from Lazarus
Post by: guest1293 on December 25, 2018, 10:18:41 am
Well, whatever, wont waste my time with this kind of talk. No point talking about "enlightenment", because no one wants It. After enlightenment, its very joyful to discover that your entire life was an illusion, and your misery unreal... You also become free of pain and "gain" some useful siddhis...

 But then  the scary part starts, and you lose EVERYTHING, and you discover that no-self is true self. Life ends with this, you are all alone, not lonely, but ALL alone.

On the plus side, my life is full of joy and fun now. All I can is... Only go for T/R If you have no choice... Otherwise stay with your fantasy, be happy with It, nothing wrong this

I like that..."only go for TR if you have no choice." I went for TR once. Then I realized that I do have a choice. I have a choice regarding how I define the things that happen in life. I have a choice where I put my attention. I have the ability to decipher what is true and what is not through my own faculties in my own experience.

Reality is right in front of you. I happened to just finish holding my 3 week old baby girl while she fell asleep in my arms. That's real. Fantasy would be disregarding that because some distant voice told you along the way that it wasn't real and that you didn't exist. I dont "go for" anything. I dont defer. Im here.
Title: Re: Jed Rant: Stolen from Lazarus
Post by: guest1170 on December 25, 2018, 10:44:28 am
Sorry, "you" are not "T/R"... Im not saying this to offend... Its obvious just by reading your post. I am not going to point out the reasons because you seem to be enjoying the illusion and Im afraid I would ruin things for you... So Ill just shut up..

Have a nice... Uh... Christmas and baby raising?
Title: Re: Jed Rant: Stolen from Lazarus
Post by: guest1293 on December 25, 2018, 10:47:37 am
You're right I'm not "TR." I'm disillusioned entirely. Thanks for noticing. Take care.

"Before enlightenment, chop wood carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood carry water."
Title: Re: Jed Rant: Stolen from Lazarus
Post by: guest1170 on December 25, 2018, 11:51:47 am
Yeah, agree... You still live life, but you dont take the activities to be real...

"You are that which never moves" - Ramana
Title: Re: Jed Rant: Stolen from Lazarus
Post by: Frits on December 25, 2018, 04:33:13 pm
Escapist meet J( and J( meet Escapist.

Very funny interaction. I think Escapist won this battle. ;D
Title: Re: Jed Rant: Stolen from Lazarus
Post by: guest1170 on December 25, 2018, 06:54:35 pm
Nothing is happening...😂
Title: Re: Jed Rant: Stolen from Lazarus
Post by: guest1293 on December 25, 2018, 09:11:14 pm
Im not even sure you were able to follow what happened in that conversation Fritz. You'd both do better to drop the spiritual enlightenment facade and get real. Or not. It's really none of my concern.
Title: Re: Jed Rant: Stolen from Lazarus
Post by: guest1170 on December 25, 2018, 09:15:40 pm
"Get real"... Back at yah
Title: Re: Jed Rant: Stolen from Lazarus
Post by: Jed McKenna on December 25, 2018, 11:08:06 pm
Alright kids, back to... hmm... Christmas spirit, yeh, that's the ticket.

Love ya, Jed.