INVISIBLE GURU FORUM

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: DragonTree on May 03, 2016, 10:56:45 pm


Title: subject
Post by: DragonTree on May 03, 2016, 10:56:45 pm
hello, back after a short hissyfit... I'll try keep drama to a minimum.
I need to unload a bit. Apologies if the post is long, you don't have to read it.

A little while ago i moved into a new house with multiple roommates. I don't have a room, I sleep on the floor in the bootroom and I like it.
There's a few cats and a dog here. The dog is starved for attention and the cats are either overfed or underfed. I've started taking the dog for walks and feeding the animals.

It really annoys me when the dog stares at me while I'm eating. This built up for a couple of days and it kept making me mad. I was aware and could do nothing, the other day I was eating an apple and the dog was staring at me. I got mad. I threw the apple at him, then decided to pick up the apple and feed it to him. I don't get mad at the dog anymore.

Lately I've been trying to listen to guided meditations a lot but every time there's some sort of interruption. Animals walking on me, people come up to me, my phone dies when I'm finally alone, etc. Even trying to meditate without the audio tracks is difficult to find time for. I went out and floated in an isolation tank one day and sat on a rock in the middle of a stream yesterday but beyond that I think I can take a hint. Stop meditating.

Recently I just stopped masturbating altogether. The amount of insanity I have is energy

I've begun to notice that I now question the various gurus I used to listen to. Ironically this inspired me to return to this forum. I used to unquestioningly listen to "awakened people" in the same way that I used to listen to my mind. The thorn is removed, so now the other thorn can be discarded. The inner guru is the only guy worth listening to right now and I suspect he's on his way out the door as well.

I don't actually want to be truth realized. I've come to this conclusion because if I did, I would.

Every time I get scared I realize this isn't about me at all. The other day I went for a job interview (I don't think I got the job) and somehow the conversation got steered into talking about meditation.
Just sitting around the house and occasionally picking up garbage really clears up the energy. There was a fair amount of bickering in the household before I showed up, I've done nothing intentionally but nobody even knows what they were mad about anymore. I think the dog is happy too









Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on May 04, 2016, 12:07:26 am
Thanks for sharing.

Love ya, Jed
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on May 08, 2016, 04:27:05 am
There's a rock in the middle of a stream that has become one of my favourite places to sit. Last night I went there to contemplate. I listened to an adyashanti recording where the guy said something about love pouring into existence and I went with that which seemed to open up what I would call peripheral awareness. There's a subtle sadness that seems to arise from energy in my face, I observed that for awhile. A memory flashed into my mind of a time i felt bullied, there was an underlying emotion of anger with the memory.
Walking home I began to worry about what I'd tell people if they asked me where I went. Naturally people did ask, I told them I went and sat on a rock. I felt a light happiness by being truthful

Today I saw a movie. They're pretty fun, I spent a bit of time just observing a lot of different things that arise. If for example my leg feels hot I observe the sensation and it always seems renewed in a way because I don't just think of hot and brush the sensation under the rug. In this way meditation has devolved into just sitting, observing stuff like its the first time I've seen it.
After the movie I saw the northern lights
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on May 08, 2016, 05:44:05 am
OHhhhh
I think I realize what's going on here.
just going back to asking "what is me?" all the stories I'd been mulling over just dropped. Its just quiet and that's the answer. Sorry for posting those essays
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on May 08, 2016, 06:04:49 am
No problem..

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on May 09, 2016, 02:36:44 pm
Its odd that after all the search for "I" I still use terms like "I am hungry"

I'm addicted to experience. Every time I get a little experience of aha! it seems like I'm getting somewhere. I also typically go to places where I think a result is more likely to happen. I'm hopelessly addicted to a sense of progression, I need a measuring stick and without it I'm scared
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on May 12, 2016, 03:41:39 am
I've been contemplating space, particularly space between senses. It seems as though there's space there but there's also no possible way to interact with it.
It operates on its own, like when I'm breathing the sensation just arises out of nowhere and then disappears, so the space is inside and outside of my little known realm.

Is this window of consciousness in/of awareness the extent of consciousness?
I doubt it. I'm not sure, but it seems possible that it could be situated in infinite nothing. For example vision is a finite circle of vision, outside of this finite circle is everything not seen.

I'm going to continue until I'm sure of something, probably just going to end up trashing this line of inquiry

All this text indicates that I'm building stories again. Meh
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on May 12, 2016, 07:16:27 am
Sounds like that to me... but if that's what you want to do, no harm no foul... just make them interesting.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on May 12, 2016, 02:47:26 pm
I'll do my best.

There's a root belief that I'm vaguely aware of which has to do with progression. It seems to help build a lot of stories. I know its in there because as soon as I noticed it I also noticed that my mind was pushing in the direction of wanting to progress past the need to feel progression. Basically what I'm doing is living in the future.
My hands feel pretty tied with this one, even this post is entirely constructed from the mechanism I'm trying to describe.

Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on May 12, 2016, 09:05:31 pm
Please provide more detail...

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on May 13, 2016, 12:41:43 am
ok.
It feels like I have to be doing something particular in order to get something.
Whenever I have realizations it gets me excited that I'm getting somewhere.
If I'm not having realizations I get worried that I'm not making progress

I feel like I have to somehow drop this belief
I think wanting to drop the belief stems from wanting progress

Currently I'm doing nothing about it and feeling anxious
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on May 13, 2016, 05:06:06 am
So, for those lag times, when you feel you are not making process, you are lying to yourself. Those are the important times while you b.s. is being whittled away to make room for the next realization. And, when you get it, thank it and then move on, ignore it completely. I.E., don't wait for the realizations, wait for the waiting.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on May 15, 2016, 03:28:33 pm
thank you x 100000000 for your previous post.

Last night I went out partying with friends. Overall it was a fun night. I caused a bit of drama by confronting someone's viewpoint about why someone isn't their friend anymore and it resulted in a 3 way argument, one guy stormed out of the bar while I was in the bathroom. Afterwards I caught up with him at home and made peace, then I vomited off the deck and went to bed.
So there's something for me to ponder - why did I want to change another person's mind?

This morning I was nursing the hangover while stacking jenga blocks. Half of the tower collapsed and I just sat there gazing at it. Suddenly I'm extremely interested in tables. I just love looking at stuff, there's such a wide assortment of things that people end up putting there and the arrangement itself is as interesting as the variety of things.

Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on May 15, 2016, 09:22:31 pm
... so, why did you try to change someone's mind. Think about it. Who's mind is it and what gives you the right to f with it? You have enough challenges with your own mind.

Love ya, Je
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on May 16, 2016, 05:25:08 pm
I've put some thought into it, didn't seem to come up with any good reason so instead I just talked to people and wait for it to emerge.

When people say certain things that I would see in myself as avoidance there is a feeling that comes up and basically says "WRONG."
If things are wrong to me I'm probably holding onto a story which asserts itself as right.

so what I'm thinking is that the story says something along the lines of "its wrong to not do what I'm doing (T/R)" which kinda translates to "my viewpoint is correct, they need to see what I'm seeing" etc. I think the function of the story is to control others so by believing it I'm not allowing others to be free.

There's more to be discovered here, tip of an iceberg
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on May 16, 2016, 05:37:09 pm
Ok scratch that big old story I just made up.
I just stuck with the word Wrong. I realized that if my friend hadn't had his story I wouldn't be contemplating wrongness, therefore his story has its place in the world and saying that something is wrong is simply denying the existence of it.

This ties together so many themes and concepts that I just couldn't get for whatever reason. I didn't expect such a small seeming realization to be such an atom bomb, looking back at my past month it was like this whole thing was being presented to me louder and louder until I could hear it. I no longer have to assert the idea of everything being perfect, I see it.

further.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on May 17, 2016, 06:18:24 am
 ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on May 20, 2016, 05:00:04 am
(no questions, just stories)
Today I went to a float tank. You basically float in silent darkness for 1.5hours in skin temperature salt water. It was uneventful aside from moving through a certain state of mind where I used to think something was happening. Upon exiting the tank there was some inner dialogue going back and forth and I noted that it was "it vs itself" (I was interested to see the rant jed posted today about saying "I").

A lot of resting anxiety has disappeared and its interesting. There's not nearly as much energy being dumped into stupid **** and I think that's causing me to have excess energy in my legs right now.

Also in those moments when i start thinking mindlessly and snap out of trance i'm no longer chastising myself for thinking. There's neither control of when I'm thinking or when I'm aware of thinking so its better just to rest in the satisfaction of leaving the trance rather than berating myself the moment I become aware. The mechanism was backwards!!
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on May 20, 2016, 05:42:00 am
Almost everything is backwards... go figure. We say we want peace, we make war, we say we want to be happy and we (not me) are miserable, say we want wealth but are quick to waste money on shallow and hollow entertainment and cotton candy, we (fill in the blank) and we create (fill in the opposite).

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on May 23, 2016, 09:17:22 am
Went in for another float...
At the beginning it was something to do because I enjoy it. About halfway through I realized the float tank was an excuse to do nothing (which was seeking). I was trying to find I and in doing so it became extremely frustrating because searching for I seems to just be fracturing I so its always I seeing I or some derivative so this search mechanism is flawed. I always outsmart me haha.

On the bright side we (friend and I) got lost on the drive home. I missed an exit and we ended up driving an extra 50km through misty mountains, lakes, and cool vegetation to get home.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on May 23, 2016, 10:42:49 am
Cool....

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on May 26, 2016, 05:42:45 am
Given what jed said about everything being backwards I've started to look at some things a little differently.
I started imagining that all the people around me are actually enlightened. By the end of the night it got really weird. Just watching people talk was strange, we just make various sounds/gestures and believe in them. It seems like everyone knows exactly what's going on and directly avoid it all the time. While watching people talk I got this sense that the things we do are very childish and innocent... I probably still look like a child on a playground to a T/R person.

Somehow that got me to contemplate what motivates us to expend any energy at all. The obvious answer seems to be avoiding death, although one could also expend energy by killing themself.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on May 26, 2016, 07:40:19 am
Whatever...

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on May 29, 2016, 05:17:54 am
sorry, did drugs and got retarded. Psychedelics easily pull me into stories.

The other day a few people were watching religious cartoons and I sat and watched with them. I got invited to go to church tomorrow morning. Maybe there's a pattern emerging, not sure but I'm going to attend.

Also the other night I had a really random dream about an old crush I used to have and when I woke up I wasn't willing to give up the emotions so there's that.

And now I wait for unfolding to s h i t all over my stories as per usual

Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on May 29, 2016, 05:54:21 am
Further...

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on May 31, 2016, 03:06:25 pm
See, further is what I was having issues with. I didn't know how to go about going further (the lie) and the reason for that is a comment you might have said a while back made me think I was doing the wrong thing at the time. It sent me through various books and teachers looking for the "best method"
Today I sat down and just watched the thoughts very closely and examined their baggage and its clear that this is further for me. Intense watching basically.
I'm not saying anyone was in the wrong here, just that it was a big roundabout way of finding out that its much more important that I listen to myself than listen to others. Whenever I ask myself "what Jed would say?" I get the exact unsatisfying answer I'm looking for anyway.
 It's clear that I can't interpret what you're saying accurately without jumping into your body so I need to more carefully monitor assumptions I make.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on May 31, 2016, 11:26:25 pm
All good, no more dope!

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on June 03, 2016, 11:04:40 pm
-read a quote about time, realization of "the big bang happened now" hit

-while sticking with the feelings thoughts carry with them I noticed some background thoughts that couldn't be located that way. realized they were attached to visual stimuli and there's been a lot of visual daydreaming i'm now (consciously) aware of

-figured truth must be getting close, later in the day felt like its a ways off, realized both are the same lie

-made funny joke: "A yam that a yam"
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on June 04, 2016, 12:36:14 am
Got it. Couldn't resist.

A man walks into a market and up to a foreign looking older fellow with a long beard. He points to a vegetable in the man's stall.

Our customer points to a vegetable and asks, ''What's that?''.

In broken English the wise old merchant says, ''A yam that a yam''.

At which point the customer realized this True Nature and becomes enlightened. He kisses the merchants feet and walks out with an ear to ear grin.

The merchant shakes his head and says, ''Cheez... dat guy's really weird''.

Remember, anyone and anything can be your guru.

Love ya, Jed.



Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on June 05, 2016, 08:47:01 am
Every day I keep getting terrified for no reason. Its really difficult to not identify with fear when it comes up... but I'll get there. This morning when I woke up it felt like my name had swallowed your name like an amoeba (if that makes any sense).

...had to sit for a moment to peel that story off...

regrettably, the f-word  :(
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on June 05, 2016, 09:50:28 am
Sounds like a nasty infection, Jedisemiatosis.

Take some Supressitol.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on June 06, 2016, 04:15:29 pm
The current method I'm using is basically mindfulness. Basically I expect that I'll see more unconscious processes and somehow that'll reveal the me, peel it away, then realize truth, fly away into the sunset, etc.

The flaw with this is that any method implies a goal. I'm trying to make truth a goal by any effort towards it (effectively pushing it away).

So right now I feel as though there's nothing I could possibly do to realize truth, yet I'm not realized, suggesting that I'm lying to myself and there's still belief that I can make it happen. This would explain why I'm still posting. Somehow I believe that posting here will make something happen, either through jed or through brainstorming.

Emotionally it still feels like I have to do something yet logically I know nothing works. That's a lie, I seem to think I have to burn myself out, yet there's a contradiction there because I know that putting effort anywhere is fruitless so I don't even want to bother. It seems like the next thing I'd normally do is stick with the emotion but I've played that strategy and I'm done with biting my own tail... (that's a lie)


Further? That's pretty much saying don't stay here, which implies keep moving forward... even though there's no point.

I feel like I want to be frustrated but the emotion is MIA.
...pointless
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on June 06, 2016, 11:28:43 pm
You can't push your self away from yourself, only occult it, layer it over with more illusion. Don't seek truth, seek to reveal untruth. Anything you can see, hear, feel, taste or smell is untruth. ANYTHING!

Emotions may be in your way and consume energy, but they have nothing to do with Truth other than cover it up with illusory importances.

Love ya, Jed

Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on June 07, 2016, 04:13:34 pm
well... ****. For this purpose that was an extremely effective post Jed. That also explains why I was contemplating the word "everything" the other day.

So now I can't shake the sense of this is a dream. Every little ounce of everything is dream. Suicide actually seems like a viable option to this character. I don't know whether or not to refer to myself in 3rd person or not but that isn't important.

The question has become
who/what is dreaming?
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on June 07, 2016, 11:26:42 pm
What is aware that there seems to be dreaming.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on June 08, 2016, 10:41:08 pm
So this got me quite frustrated, which is good. I ended up doing a guided meditation where I just zoned out. Trying to be aware of things has strangled awareness.

Being relaxed made me look at the smaller things I've been putting aside. There's a lot of little behavioural things which I've been ignoring because I was chasing an idea about a dream. Recently I read a passage from Spiritually INcorrect where Julie mentions the huge underground mushroom...


(documenting stories to work on)
There's anxiety about my living situation. I have no money and rent will be due eventually. I'm fine with having no money for my own sake but it causes anxiety when I think of what others will think when I come up short. Surprisingly this is causing a myriad of odd anxieties such as not wanting to watch tv around roommates.

Next there's the animals. I get upset about stupid things like the dog eating cat food. I only noticed it today when I saw him trying to eat some cat food and instead of getting mad at him I handed him the dish and chuckled about it. There's still something in this area, I can tell because I get the impulse to shout at the cats when they scratch the furniture for attention.

The 3rd one is a little hazy at the moment but I need to look at the anxiety surrounding the possibility of NOT getting T/R which may be responsible for my most recent mirage chases.


Might get a little notebook to document things throughout the day in order to aid this process
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on June 09, 2016, 02:21:37 am
Definitely a good idea...

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on June 11, 2016, 04:44:42 am
Jumping into the mechanics of my behaviour...


Sometimes I do things or just have the urge to do something bad, then a feeling pops up which I reflexively avoid.

Often times I don't want others to see what I'm up to. Originally I thought that I didn't want others to see that I wasn't searching for a job but then I learned that I also hide my job-searching behaviour as well. ???
My mind makes itself pretty busy trying to manage what others think (at least it seems that way). Really it just gives me bad feelings when I'm not living up to an image. If I speak quietly when I want to speak loud anxiety arises and that tends to constrict my voice further.

Effort is very often focused in the future by preemptively thinking of responses for anticipated conversations. I can't remember the example but at one point I caught myself imagining the past and using that to project into future.

Also there's a lot of times where I just make effort to change the present and it might be something as the urge to change the song on the radio.


A lot of these things are just moments where I'm not content with the present and then a favourable image pops up where I can distract myself. For now I'm going to work on staying with anything that arises.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on June 12, 2016, 12:03:52 am
... soo......

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on June 12, 2016, 12:54:21 am
"... soo......"
?????

If its somehow not apparent to you I'm completely lost and I'm going to flail around like a retard
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on June 12, 2016, 01:41:51 am
Asking "who am I?"

In asking the question I have expectations about.... something I kinda forgot already. Anyway I was looking with a kinesthetic sensation as if there would be a kinesthetic answer.

Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on June 12, 2016, 01:55:41 am
Stop expecting an answer, the question is the answer.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on June 13, 2016, 06:47:16 pm

Anyway just by working through things I've ended up at a meditative mindset. It changes your relationship to your perception of things (but doesn't change them). The best way I could explain it is to imagine you're a fog that everything that arises and falls into/from is seen. This is a poor representation. The easiest way to notice it is to make a noise and then when the noise disappears its sitting there where the noise was, however, this seems to be more of a suspicion because it can't actually be looked at.
Obviously I've labeled it with a name (nothing) and also identify with it (the concept). This can be worked through. It just seems like I'm at a point where I'm adding a layer, removing the layer, and repeating.

So this led me to say the universe occurs within me and now I have something to work with. Just as planned

Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on June 13, 2016, 10:30:47 pm
I think i'm stuck. It seems like every effort I put in only serves delusion,
If I ask "what is true" nothing is presented to slay anymore,
"who am I" just leaves me sitting there blank

-attached to results
-fear of falling back (staying) asleep
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on June 13, 2016, 10:46:31 pm
Then, just sit there blank...

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on June 17, 2016, 10:54:49 pm
I was watching horror films and it made me think of the role of black vs white and how making black blacker reinforces our assertions that we should chase white. Oops i just bled my nose by picking it.
I'm a zombie. I don't want to be a slave to the black and white game and I don't want to go without it because its scary (black). Oh, just questioned my own answer.  Now I'll hit post because its feels white

edit: That one killed my hobbies, wasn't expecting that
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on June 17, 2016, 11:53:47 pm
 ;) ;) ;) ;) :D ::) :P
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on June 19, 2016, 04:36:03 am
Thank you Jed. I wanted to say that at some point today and then I thought about it and it seems redundant.


An interesting question came up today: How would I want to die?
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on June 19, 2016, 05:09:45 am
You will eventually drop your body, which they call dying around on this planet, however, the real you was not born and will ever die.

So, who cares  ??? ??? ???

It ain't up to you.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on June 20, 2016, 12:52:00 am
Ok, yeah. The question came up in a very fearful mindset. I believed that dying is serious so pretending there's some kind of control over death seemed to distract from the "seriousness."   :-*
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on June 20, 2016, 12:54:48 am
Believe whatever you want. I would want to get in your way... much.

Love ya Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on June 22, 2016, 03:04:18 am
These past few days I've been very bored. All the meaning has been sucked out of life and it has resulted in me just laying on a couch or the ground all day. People just talk and I hear blahblah most of the time. Occasionally there's a pang of curiosity about some emotion or sound and it animates me for a little while but that's about it. Perhaps I'm attached to disbelief or something. still further  :-\
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on June 22, 2016, 03:55:20 am
Yup...
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on June 23, 2016, 05:55:33 am
My friend [X] has this dog that he never takes care of. Since moving into this house with him I've given the dog walks and attention out of pity for him (because [X] neglects him in this regard). As time goes on and on I've slowly slipped into a habit of pestering the dog, getting annoyed by it, and sometimes even teasing it. We're moving to a new place soon and it was agreed that [X] was going to give the dog away to someone else because we'll have no yard for him. Today [X] told me he wants to keep the dog and my first thought was "this is retarded, the dog is an accessory to you" and when I stopped paying attention to that particular thought pattern my attention went to what I'll do to the dog. My plan was to completely ignore it until [X]'s own neglect becomes apparent to him.

What I just realized is that I felt the same way with how my parents treated their dog and the result was that I unconsciously developed abusive tendencies towards the dog which were based on feelings towards the owner. The exact same pattern from years ago is beginning to repeat itself.

It even emerges in different ways. My roommates consistently allow the house to get filthy and I'm generally the only one who cleans it up. The first time I cleaned the house it was fine, I like cleaning. As time goes on I'm becoming more and more pissy about cleaning up after everyone to the point where I'm whipping garbage across the house and generally entertaining a state of anger towards the task which is actually felt towards the people I blame.


Glad I'm moving out of here. If the dog comes with us I'll be quite surprised.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on June 23, 2016, 06:23:36 am
Yes, the dog might have the brains to not go with you. ;) ;) ;)

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on June 24, 2016, 02:37:39 am
Jed would you say that to even know what anything means is to be actively in a trance?
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on June 24, 2016, 02:44:57 am
Yes, that is a great way to express it. To know what anything means is to make a story up about it. BUT don't forget that last step. To make the illusion really stick you need to believe the  story. Otherwise it remains a story and only a story. The strength of belief is commensurate with the depth and stength of the illusion. Without any belief in your thoughts you are left with naked stories. Not as sexy as is sounds, but it can be fun to play with.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on June 27, 2016, 04:11:26 am
Until the other day I had been really anti-social. I guess disbelief doesn't mean I have to go about anything differently (or even try to disbelieve something).

My perspective has changed. Every now and again get the opportunity to unplug from ideas, it really seems to come down to choice... but not really
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on June 27, 2016, 05:52:50 am
...yes, not really...

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on July 05, 2016, 12:15:11 am
Jed do you even have any certainty around the question "who am I"? If I were to guess it would be irrelevant due to paradigm gap.

(some tons of garbage omitted)
...Speaking of images I was in some kind of state where it seemed like I was on the other side of thoughts. The implication was that understanding language is a barrier of sorts. I could let go and not understand anything. It was an experience of having no more questions... an experience :-\  It took a few days but I realized that I was beginning to worship an experience. Truthish, informative, yet fleeting. Some stupid samadhi state or whatever tricked me  >:( gross! I **** hate being tricked... must be more careful. Thankfully, I have this word that occasionally pops into my head: further. Too bad it isn't a cooler word y'know? Like alakazam or steamroller...
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on July 05, 2016, 12:29:02 am
 ;) ;) ;) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) :o 8) ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on July 10, 2016, 08:12:27 pm
This morning I was thinking about how I could rip on a religious person's belief system by getting them to question it and long story short it made me realize that I have a belief system. Its all built up around junk you'd find in jed's books and these forums. I haven't been tossing out much, if I have its only to make room for the new operating system. Needless to say all that **** went up in a flash fire and I feel like I've been drinking poison
I want out. I'm tired of dicking around like this. Its disgusting. I thought I was becoming more thorough but I've only been carefully scanning within a set paradigm. I don't want 10 years, 2years, it needs to go now. This is filth. Why is anger always the response to catching mysefl anyway? Waste of time/energy. Except no, that's an answer from distortion. and that. ****. I'm ashamed. I just can't not distort things
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on July 11, 2016, 12:51:09 am
Anger is excellent fuel, starter fuel for your engine. However, you can't run on it for long. You need to use it for what it's good for.

Don't think you are particularly special (a big human challenge/problem) you ain't. Furthermore, you will never get beyond distortions while in your body. Your will lessen them, yes, you will understand and see through them more and  more, but they will always be there to a degree.

Don't worry about it and don't be so hard on yourself. You are all you have (rather... think you have).

Jed, Nisargadatta, Ramana, and all other teachers also distort. Sometimes in an effort to teach (intentionally) and other  times just a byproduct of opening ones mouth (less intentionally). It's the way it is.

Love ya, Jed.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on July 12, 2016, 03:33:47 am
That post was very informative and relevant. The anger was very short lived, a lot of thoughts were popping up in a "why me" manner.

I looked into Nisargadatta. The teaching is extremely simple: dwell in the sense of I am. I'm guessing people get pulled off track with this because it doesn't do anything for you. I'm drawn to this one because its something I spontaneously started doing one day many years ago before hearing of anything vaguely "spiritual." It makes me feel rooted,placid. will continue
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on July 12, 2016, 04:50:44 am
Yes, further...

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on July 14, 2016, 12:39:56 pm
This morning I was laying in bed and things got really still. I felt like I was a booger becoming dislodged, got a bit scared and ended up generating fear to stop it. Nothing more to say - I say fear, you say further
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on July 14, 2016, 02:06:14 pm
AH the illusion of significance... that's why I'm holding down the fort like its a big deal. Lets hold that f u c k e r to the light and see what happens
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on July 15, 2016, 04:56:36 pm
When you boil it down its just not accepting death. I have to let it suck me in  :-\  It seems a bit crazy, but I suppose if it seems like everything I know is about to go then it can't be me. Just gotta jump, no thinking, just falling... simple decision ;)
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on July 15, 2016, 09:41:38 pm
Yes, very simple.. just release all.

Love ya, Jed
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on July 19, 2016, 02:18:28 am
No questions in here
Today I found another layer of activity I was hiding behind. I was straining to be in the present moment which in retrospect is retarded. I let that go, then I went through and inspected all the previous hangups I've been at which ended up becoming a meditation. After watching for however long my head started ringing and my mind remarked "into the abyss we go!" I just watched. It was an experience (of a non-experience sort) but that's not it. I was in and out like pizza in the oven and the fact that I wasn't scared of this time was unfortunately reassuring.
It seems like I could have gone deeper somehow but that's just another expectation to find a thing in a thing. <-judgement

Cutting off belief of jedmckenna books is one of the best things I've ever done. My mind drones on and if I'm watching I'll catch various different beliefs over the years that I just never let go of. If I go through content again it's only to monitor if I agree or disagree, then I can just not. I thought I had a question when I began typing but I'd rather not ask and just see for myself.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on July 20, 2016, 01:55:02 am
Sounds like a plan..

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on July 21, 2016, 02:01:56 am
 >:(
If every factor that exists is illusory there's no illusion that could undo illusion. Is that true? It makes me think that doing nothing is also a something... like having your name be "nameless" or even something like a terrible dad joke- "Dad I'm hungry! Hi Hungry I'm Dad."

Then I'm sitting here 'dwelling in the sense of I am'
It was a lot easier when I started, I don't know what to dwell in anymore. If there's anything to dwell in its not I, and I can't just 'be' because that's already being done (or is it?). That provokes "what am I?" which leads to  ???
I wonder if I should even bother but I guess I should, since I am.  If I knew how to stop running I'd like to think I would, but it looks like I'm gonna have to sprint until I break a lung.

Oh I seem to have fallen into poverty/debt somewhere along the way but lets just trust that it sorts itself out.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on July 21, 2016, 03:05:47 am
Remember, poverty is just 'state' and all states come and go. T/R never comes and never goes.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on July 22, 2016, 05:10:48 am
"Remember, poverty is just 'state' and all states come and go. T/R never comes and never goes."
Yes that looks quite similar to a thread I was tugging on earlier. I boiled a statement down to "nothing can only be nothing if it is relative to something, meaning that things can only appear to be (or not be) due to relativity.
There's more juice to be squeezed here but I wanted to get this down before I go to bed.

It puts impossible guru speak into perspective though. "neither nothing nor something," etc
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on July 22, 2016, 05:43:11 am
 ;) :P :-*
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on July 23, 2016, 11:46:11 pm
It's fascinating that such simple questions are so exhilarating for me. Just finding out what's true for me is the kind of thing that keeps me up at night in wonder... as opposed to falling asleep and sleeping in all day to avoid.

Jed does the phrase "truth exists" mean the same thing to you as what "I am" means to others in the context of t/r?  If you don't really know I understand...

I'm curious because the "I am" thing lost its lustre to me, I don't really care to find out about myself, but the phrase "truth exists" just lights me up like a... like a bright light. I touch a few impossible things and  can't help but wonder what's real, you know? Its getting pretty difficult to even formulate an answer to "what's true" anymore because the answers that begin to form have already been nullified. I'll continue asking though.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on July 24, 2016, 06:52:58 am
Feelings are not felt. At best there's just a loose arrangement of random things going on but they're not be thinged by a central thing. Nothing can be touched, there's nothing to touch anything with. How did I think there was some guy holding it all together feeling all the feelings and seeing all the sights? OK, up late again, furhter...tomorrow
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on July 24, 2016, 07:27:35 am
Yup... there's always tomorrow... or is there?

love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on July 24, 2016, 10:03:00 am
"Yup... there's always tomorrow... or is there?"
hmmmmm. Actually I'm getting slightly worried about that.

I didn't really digest that last post before it posted. I said "there's nothing to touch anything with" as if I really meant nothing (in a 2 sense).
This morning my hand wasn't where I left it when I fell asleep. It was somewhere hanging beside my hip before, if I go there to visit it now its gone. The sensation is still there, but not in a location... more like another layer. I might be making this up, it deserves more scrutiny.


edit: A distraction, I made it up
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on July 24, 2016, 09:36:18 pm
Anything else that you have made up???

Love ya, Jed
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on July 25, 2016, 01:07:49 am
 :-\
what haven't I made up
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on July 25, 2016, 06:24:09 am
Excellent question....

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on July 26, 2016, 12:48:24 am
Recently I had been thinking that my concept of money had been outdated. I figured I would just print resumes, spam businesses, get job, have money, survive. The objective was basically get money, the ends justify the means. "Maybe I should take money out of the equation" I said aloud to myself, assuming that there was an I to listen.

I thought about it and I figured that I should just find things people want done that I'm also good at. The next day I got an email response from an old guy who refused my application to be a dishwasher, but instead offered me a job as a personal assistant. Cool. I'll be able to do everything on my own schedule, couldn't have found a better job. Taking money out of the equation got me to avoid identifying as a poor person.

I was playing computer games and it started to become boring. "why is this boring?" I've become an objective machine at this game. I was staring at the mini-map and objectives list more than I was playing the game. "Drop the objectives." Instantly the game was fun. Just a witch doctor shooting darts. When you're not chasing an outcome it really doesn't matter when your character dies. After a little while I thought "your objective is to play like this" and there's nothing much I can do about that but laugh. Objective brain is playing a game of its own, but at least this paragraph contains some metaphors about what I've been doing that need to be looked at.

Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on July 26, 2016, 05:36:36 am
I've been posting a lot, hope that isn't inconvenient for you...

Once again I'm back to finding where sensations occur. I think I lost an imaginary reference point or something because if I'm feeling my hand I can't find where the sensation is unless I mentally position it relative to something else, like a foot. Even then where are the feelings? I don't know where I am or where feelings occur. If I focus on a feeling there's nothing solid, its like trying to grasp air. Here is relative to there. Guess that rules out a 'where.'
When things are compared they are sorted relative to each other. If anything is observed with an observer in mind there is 2. The observer works as a fixated point of reference, if you take observer out of the equation then everything can be the center.
But if I can't actually find anything is it even worth stating there's a center?

No location, no observer, and trying to comprehend seeing raises terrible fear.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on July 26, 2016, 06:16:36 am
no trash that whole thing its based in belief of no observer, observer is observed, and I as the observed
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on July 27, 2016, 12:37:43 am
Contemplate where you start and end, when you are and the other person is. Where does here end and there begin? When does now end and then begin? Do you really have a face? Have you ever seen it? When is Jed asking all these stupid questions?

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on July 29, 2016, 03:23:10 am
When you snap out of a trance of what you're doing its not like its any better except for the relief of what you were doing
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on July 31, 2016, 06:31:29 am
 ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on July 31, 2016, 06:37:19 am
is anyone else even real?
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on July 31, 2016, 07:25:17 am
Forget about others, don't look out, look inward. Do you even exist?

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on August 03, 2016, 05:15:26 am
I sat down to do some of those contemplations Jed suggested. It dawned on me that the way I go about doing these things is transactional. I'm only doing things with the expectation of some kind of reward for putting in attention and effort. That basically means that I'm operating at the level of want. Often the best discoveries happen when I'm just curious about things, not when I'm disciplining myself to do it for any reason. Its basically a subtle effort to control an outcome rather than surrender.
Okay this is just a tricky way of saying I don't have to operate at the level of want.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on August 03, 2016, 07:01:30 am
 ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on August 05, 2016, 12:18:36 pm
The more I think about time the less sense it makes. Time seems like a movement rather than an aging. 
I have an image of reality being smoke drifting by an aperture. More smoke ha ha
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on August 06, 2016, 12:30:48 am
 ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on August 08, 2016, 03:04:37 am
My idea about smoke drifting past an aperture was basically a perceiver/perceived thing. In the same way that nothing and something can only be if one is there to imply the other, There's no perceived without perceiver (and vice versa). Logic demands a source but the source is the paradox because they are tied into eachother. What could these paradoxes be hanging out in other than the apparent is-ness? what is is-ness?
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on August 08, 2016, 06:35:48 am
The opposite of not-is-ness. Let me know if you can come up with a better definition.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on August 09, 2016, 02:08:01 am
Imagine that it's possible to redefine the apparent reality around you. *Poof* that house disappeared because I wanted it to go. It wouldn't make much sense to everyone around and it might cause panic. If I want the house to go, and the dream needs to be seamless, every story could be rewritten to and since everyone looks to their stories for what's real to them nobody could ever know. Fresh surprise to find out this forum exists (just like the story said).... [is that true
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on August 09, 2016, 03:06:14 am
Who could possibly know anything  ??? ??? ???

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on August 09, 2016, 07:20:44 am
just brainstorming a bit
"Who could possibly know anything"
asking who assumes there's more than 1 who could know anything, or that there is anything to know. Or does it? My assumption about 'who' means 2 or more to choose from. If the default was none, 'who' wouldn't be.(or would it)

The who questions bug me. Bug who? I don't know. Who doesn't know? If I could see who/what the who is there probably wouldn't be a question. If who could see you... not you? Is there anything to see?

Ok who knows how to walk? seems pretty automatic... the body?
does the body know it knows how to walk? do cells know they're alive?
what knows? what is knowing?

**** this **** its endless and i'm still nose deep in **** there's no **** end
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on August 09, 2016, 01:20:32 pm
In the kitchen I saw a sink full of dishes in stagnant dirty water that had been left overnight. That's pretty much me, I thought. Where's the plug?
--
I've been looking for the source of thoughts. They seem to spring from all aspects of experience and I've read Jed say Truth isn't experience.
-who is having an experience?
Damn its really me that's gotta go. It doesn't seem possible and I really don't intend on going anywhere. At the same time I pretty much get fight/flight anxiety if I distract myself from writing for too long... Drama.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on August 11, 2016, 05:31:22 am
Jed I have a question about habits. I've picked my nails since I was a young kid. The habit slowly evolved into a frequent grooming thing where I'm always looking for hairs to pull out, knuckles to crack, scabs to pick, etc. How would you suggest getting to the root of the habit?
So far I've just been watching myself when I notice the urge to do it.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on August 12, 2016, 02:43:28 am
Do whatever you do very, very slowly and with the focus of an olympic fencer... or a three year old kid with a new toy. Never, ever attempt to change anything. Always trust in the power of awareness to take care of whatever needs to be taken care of... let it decide.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on August 12, 2016, 06:10:00 am
Ok thank you.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on August 17, 2016, 03:02:21 am
I've been having a lot of chest pains/heart palpitations recently which is quite worrying. It puts the fear of death in me and I'm not going to visit a doctor (aware of fear of diagnosis). Please post smileys so I can feel like I pressed the right button
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on August 17, 2016, 07:03:04 am
Do not write on the forum any more... I don't want to be responding to foolish people and wasting my time. Or, in the alternative (he said lovingly) GO TO THE DOCTOR!

Then we can talk.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on September 13, 2016, 06:09:33 am
In sticking with the sense of "I exist" its dawning on me that I'm doing another thing and that makes me feel depressed/pointless (perhaps it's doing its job). I have this half-baked idea which equates surrender to sticking with  'I am'  due to blind faith. What would you define as surrender?
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on September 14, 2016, 03:07:42 am
I can't define surrender, only do it and experience it.

I suggest you do the same. What harm could come of it.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on September 22, 2016, 05:28:51 am
This morning I noticed that what I was directed towards with the 'I am' thing was a certain sense of wakefulness. Ok damn, so I ask "what could possibly contain waking and sleep state?" and I got a sense of what I would call solid space. Instead of "i am" it seemed easier to refer to it as "it is" but fear started ramping up like crazy to the point where my brain felt like it was about to have a seizure to try to get away. Later I tried sensing into it and it seems the hole was patched.

Do you have any tips on not sensing into false things?
Is there any foreseeable issue with the "it is" statement?
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on September 22, 2016, 05:38:32 am
What if everything you ever did, or ever happened to you, was Truth gently tugging at you. Sure, that would be classed as a belief, except from the other end, then you will realize it was true, and Truth, all along.

Love ya, Jed
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on September 22, 2016, 06:59:15 am
IT would mean that if I'm able to relax and pay attention where its due all will unfold as it should. -The feeling of urgency-
 :-*
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on September 22, 2016, 08:16:39 am
Yes, and what if that feeling of urgency is a Truth tug as well???

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on September 22, 2016, 04:54:22 pm
Yeah that was meant to be my point but I was at a loss of words to properly articulate it. Its the current thing that I've been unknowingly worshipping and loathe to let go of... although now that I'm actually looking at it its easy
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on September 22, 2016, 08:29:47 pm
Sounds like a plan.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on September 23, 2016, 04:40:09 am
I put a lot more thought into that "what if its all a truth tug" thing you mentioned. The result - I don't know what it means. I don't know the mechanisms of truth, I don't know how or why it works, I don't know what its doing on a moment to moment basis, I just don't know, so to say that anything is the right or wrong way is stating that you know something unknowable (Truth) which is bullpoo. It even covers the idea of anything being perceived wrong as all part of the Truth masterplan (or accidentally on purpose idk).
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on September 24, 2016, 02:49:31 am
Got it... thanks for sharing.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on September 28, 2016, 05:07:10 am
Instead of trying to awaken, why not try to dream? Is this heresy on this forum?
I've spent so much energy trying to wake that I can comfortably call myself retarded. The reality of those efforts are that they were just denial of dreaming(living). Fool! YOU FOOL! No wonder you make yourself  so miserable at times
If I'm here to dream (seems so) I'm gonna have a goddamn dream. Guess I have to die at the end  :-\   Before I figured I could ride the awakening ride to escape death. Its big, its scary, oh well. ****

Maybe its an odd question for you Jed but is there any way to... sleep harder?
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on September 28, 2016, 05:46:40 am
Yes. Take less garbage to bed with you (I don't mean people, I mean mental/psychic garbage).

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on October 02, 2016, 06:27:02 am
Watcher is the watched...
Is that why untruth is so inescapable? It would seem that [everything] has to completely disappear to be rid of untruth ???  interesting.

I've been trying to work with where does here end and there begin but I haven't managed to establish a here. Any pointers? Maybe that's the point, I just felt the pang of wtf.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on October 02, 2016, 08:34:45 am
Stick with it...

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on October 04, 2016, 07:36:51 am
I've landed on 2 points of interest.

-perhaps there's no here (:. no there) :o

-this question is starting to **** me off. I'll just make the here outside of myself for simplicity's sake. Oh maybe I'm on to something: the here is everything here within awareness, there is outside (if there even is such a thing).

can't stop here...
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on October 04, 2016, 08:05:17 am
 ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on October 07, 2016, 05:20:37 am
stick with the question
I took the question to sesame street. Kermit explained that anywhere you are is here, anywhere you are not is there. Kermit is the best.

I've tried to find where here ends and it has led to outward looking to its limitations.

But then I remember that if I can hallucinate these things they aren't me. Everything I thought of as here is there. Gotta flip the focus and start over. I've been looking farther and farther out for where here ends but now I'm gonna have to look inwards (if possible) at where there begins (as 'there' is currently established)

I've also hit some writers block
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on October 07, 2016, 06:45:03 am
Stick with it.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on October 08, 2016, 06:08:44 am
seems like there's a gap between here and there
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on October 08, 2016, 07:40:53 am
Where is that ''gap''?

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on October 08, 2016, 03:59:30 pm
Well if I stare into a bright light it seem like I can gauge where the visual field begins. It seems like the closest vision can get is still not reaching far in enough to be touching "me."
Its probably built off an assumption of being behind vision or behind senses. My here and there is stuck to that right now
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on October 08, 2016, 07:08:55 pm
Stick with it.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on October 08, 2016, 11:18:16 pm
Ah I'm always digging here and there into the ground as a thing that has to have a set point to be contemplated. Now I can remove it from ideas and just contemplate the phrase itself.  :)

Here/there is only possible if there are finite whatevers
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on October 10, 2016, 09:52:25 pm
The are no answers, to  anything.

Love ya, Jed.

P.S. The good news is you can make anything up.

Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on October 15, 2016, 07:35:20 am
I've been making up a lot... I want to flush it down this toilet

At work I've been the butt of a couple of murderer jokes which is at the cutting edge of a recent pattern where people have been responding in a fearful way to me. I don't know, but I had a friend over recently and I get funny thoughts like "I can attack him with a knife and make it necessary for him to kill me."

My brain is all hazy all the time. I forget where I am often and sometimes I think I'm seeing ghosts or something because I'll see stuff move in my periphery and it scares me and one time I thought a few pipes were a girl.

I looked into some charles manson interviews for some odd reason and it almost seems like he's in that realm of guruspeak but i doubt he's done.

A friend and I were looking at a bug and everything seemed weird. Its not like me and him anymore, its like i'm there and there's physically another person but the feeling of another person being there isn't there.

I haven't done SA in a few days. got into meditation with a phrase "let everything be as it is." If I do that for a little while the brain haze goes away temporarily.

phew, sorry its like buildup this is the outlet
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on October 15, 2016, 08:41:52 am
Let it out here all you want.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on October 26, 2016, 07:50:48 am
When I do SA it feels like a pretty calm activity but when I get going for awhile there's an inner frustration. Its like a buried feeling that wants to slam through the desk I'm writing on but if I were to do that there would be no satisfaction. I tried it once and I just felt dumb. There's no outlet for it. I don't necessarily want to get rid of it, just explore what it is and what its doing there
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on October 26, 2016, 10:04:34 am
Yes, just watch it.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on October 27, 2016, 06:11:36 am
"You are everything, nothing and don't even exist."
"No one has ever been ''enlightened'' yet upon realization one realizes they (and everyone else) was always enlightened."

Well if there's nobody to enlighten then it follows that everybody is enlightened but it is the show itself that wants it. Maybe something like me watching television and the character wants to realize they are the tv and I don't actually exist to watch it. Like an abondoned home or something.
 
I don't know why I even bother with these riddles. Its not me that wants anything but more of a pattern familiar to a pattern chasing patterns. Its not even worth what little drama it appears to itself as to be. "Why bother" is equal to "Why not bother" so **** it I'll do neither and pretend I'm me some more
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on October 28, 2016, 01:54:42 am
O.K. with me...  ::) ::) ::) :P :P

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on November 04, 2016, 05:51:02 am
In SA I've found that every question with the word Truth in it is an attempt to give Truth character in some way. It's difficult to write a question without immediately crossing it out.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on November 04, 2016, 06:44:00 am
I think you have missed a subtle distinction. Write something that's true has nothing to do with Truth. They are not the same thing. Don't confuse them. Just write something that is true and investigate it to make sure it's true. Forget about Truth for the time being. You will deal with that in good time, or more like, it will deal with you in its own good time.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on November 05, 2016, 07:46:45 pm
Gotcha.
My issue with writing what's true is that I seem to hit bedrock. I normally boil stuff down into

"there is neither being nor not being"

which carries the opposite:
"there is not neither being nor not being" (there is being and not being)

so then
"there is neither (neither being nor not being) nor (both being and not being)"

which has the opposite
"there is (neither being nor not being) and (both being and not being)"

...and the trend builds infinitely. The engine seems to be opposites, if I say [there is] or [there is not] the trap is sprung. The issue i'm having is that language always boils down to opposites and if I try to destroy opposites I get infinity.

If there's an obvious leg I'm standing on here I'd appreciate it if you could help me find it
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on November 06, 2016, 01:16:23 am
... and what's wrong with infinity  ??? ??? ???

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on November 11, 2016, 02:51:20 am
I feel like I'm wasting my life. Its like there's something grand I can do I'll never get around to doing it. I know that there are friendlier moods in this body but they're never out to play and I'm generally a low-key **** to most people. I wonder about the things that it *seems* like I should be doing -mostly in a relationship sense... I kinda want women in my life but I seem to repel them so i justify it with "i don't care" attitude.

More than any of the tiny wants I know what I really want. There was a short time when I did a bunch of SA and became extremely happy for no apparent reason and it seemed like all the wrongview disappeared temporarily. I'm aware that you say not to try to repeat experiences but how I was functioning for that little while is what I want to do/be/have. It seems like the way life should be lived and I'm trying to get to it in a way that isn't saying this moment is wrong for not being like that.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on November 16, 2016, 08:58:22 am
I did a thing and experienced fear. Next came a subtle impulse to sidestep the feeling of dread and I think its actually the subtle impulse that is fear and not the feeling.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on December 05, 2016, 09:48:28 pm
The other day I found myself in a conversation with someone who was explaining to me the many facets of being in a dream, truth, and some other details. At first I figured maybe I should direct him to Jed's books... nah. As time went on this person explained many things, I would reply by directing their statements where I would do with my own and we achieved various results. Sometimes the conversation would momentarily grind to a halt, other times it would seem like they were short circuiting for a moment and continue steamrolling through with random quotes and ideas, and most of the time I just got "yeah, but..."
What can you do but shrug? After awhile I'm just wondering if there's something I'm supposed to be doing here. I felt a little sorry for them and it made me think of the teacher student dynamic. It makes me want to apologize to jed for various reasons but I should really be apologizing to myself.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on December 06, 2016, 12:48:41 am
Find out your purpose in engaging in Truthish talk... I assure you it will be complete b.s.

Love ya, Jed.

But hey, look and see what your experience is ... I may be wrong. I was wrong once back in 1981 while travelling in Norway...  but it was a very fun kinda wrong.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on December 08, 2016, 01:34:28 pm
Well it differs from when I would argue with people and try to say ""right" things. I have different discussion strategies but the goal remains similar -these people need to think what I think. It hides under the pretext of "helping." Well, not really, but its clear that I probably have some writing ahead of me.      -control?

Oh and I really want to tell you about an experience I had. Its not so much about the experience but the desire to say something about it. With most thoughts I just look at them and they disappear and I forget I even had them. Right now I want to say something really badly so the thought is on repeat ALL DAY. I never noticed it before but somehow there are thoughts that just seem way more important and the word important is usually synonymous with BS in my hallucinations.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on December 08, 2016, 10:26:23 pm
I have different discussion strategies but the goal remains similar -these people need to think what I think. It hides under the pretext of "helping." Well, not really, but its clear that I probably have some writing ahead of me.      -control?

This is a profound realization. I would urge you to get it at a cellular level. Yes, my bet is you are seeking either validation or control, and they are related.

If you have something you want to blurt out, carry a small note book and excuse yourself for a moment while you write it out... then shut the F up. I mean that. While your gums are flapping you are not learning anything. And that applies to me so I'll shut up now.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on December 10, 2016, 11:30:53 pm
 :o I'm trying to make other people me
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on December 11, 2016, 01:04:21 am
Ridiculous waste of time and energy, they already are you.

Love ya, Jed
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on December 13, 2016, 12:16:38 am
"Thought must be divided against itself before it can come to any knowledge of itself"

I'm very baffled. To me this seems to imply that everything experienced is nothing more than a thought, and for obvious reasons I can't imagine a non-experience. Why bother posting, its clearly not a post. I don't get what's going on, I'm extremely curious about what could possibly be real (if anything/nothing/[N/A]).

I don't think its actually me trying to unravel me, that couldn't possibly be true. At best (most likely worst) I'm pretending to do a thingy in la la land and I'm being tricked every step of the way by who knows what. What the heck, man.


Oh and I've been carrying my notebook, writing in it and keeping my mouth shut. I even wrote a post before this post in it but then I still wanted to post because I could not resist.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on December 13, 2016, 04:09:58 am
Strange thing about food... often what you can't resist you are allergic to.

Perhaps it also applies to teachers/gurus.

Love ya, Jed
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on December 18, 2016, 03:46:30 am
At a base level validation works as an affirmation of existence. Many behaviours can send validation or even bait others to send it to yourself. I've got a few social "blocks" that are just irrelevant now because it was treating validation like a finite resource and withholding it from others and so on. Gonna be watching this one for a while longer.

In my previous post I quoted "thought must be divided against itself before it can come to any knowledge of itself." That raises the question "can the perceiver be perceived" and although I know the question assumes a perceiver it will not dissipate*. The difficulty of finding what isn't there is peculiar because you don't find what can't be found especially if nobody is even there to be looking for it. The phrase "not an experience" makes me sit with my head in my hand.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on December 18, 2016, 05:28:03 am
Trying to find the way out by using what got you in this mess is ridiculous. The mind won't give you a key that would mean it own demise. Besides, the answer doesn't even lie in there... where you are look. The light might seem little better but it's not where the key is. Look where you lost it.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on December 22, 2016, 12:22:46 am
AAfter a lengthy ma st ur ba ti on session I decided that I prefer knowing, but then I looked at the story, as I look at this one (to be continued?). Obviously whenever I stop wanting for t/r the scary insights happen so I gotta start bs ing myself and jump back on that story train.

Surface story stuff is an iteresting game. I tell myself I'm the only person at this job who knows he doesn't work here and that's the backdoor story. That's okay I know the game now and I can watch. Perhaps I'm not the one believing in stories, but the belief itself? Maybe it'll get contemplated, maybe it won't. I'd like to say "stay tuned" but this is not entertainment
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on December 22, 2016, 12:50:28 am
If not entertainment then what?

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on December 24, 2016, 02:57:41 am
"If not entertainment then what?"
hmm the question assumes I knew what it was since I could tell what its not.
Actually this makes me want to ponder all the neti neti style stuff where I'd say "not this, not that" because in a similar manner to the line above it assumes I knew.

I notice that there is text all over the page yet I can only read one line at a time. That doesn't mean the other stuff isn't there, I'm just ignoring everything else to focus on one piece at a time
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on December 24, 2016, 08:54:20 am
You


create


this


while


you


read


it.


Love


Ya,


Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on January 05, 2017, 02:08:57 am
When I make a continuous mental sound there's a small gap where it breaks. At the moment a breath changes direction from inhale to exhale (or vice versa) it will be a silent moment of the mind.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on January 05, 2017, 04:11:57 am
Just be aware, that is sufficient.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on January 09, 2017, 01:29:47 am
Thank you.

I'm currently focused on focusing my effort. At this point its clear that I don't need to run 2 or 3 weird techniques at once to attain some weird yet powerful paradigm. I've narrowed all that to just saying "I" and being aware of wherever that may lead. This way I can dismiss all story as story instead of wrestling with it. For a little while I was afraid of posting that here because what tends to happen is that you say something that kills my curiosity but I'll leave that to chance.

I think in many of my previous posts the intention was to see what Jed will say in return, it wasn't to get whatever I thought I wanted but instead to work on building that model of Jed in my head. The more I would build on the model the more I would expect you to say certain things but the catch is that I was expecting to read what I think I would say if I were Jed, and that seems to go for anyone else I talk to. The result is sitting in a car full of people and noticing that we all seem to be talking to ourselves, together.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on January 09, 2017, 03:08:54 am
... am I saying what you expected...

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on January 09, 2017, 11:44:25 am
No thats like pretending I control what I think.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on January 09, 2017, 02:16:43 pm
I am now pretending I know what I am writing... blah, blah.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on January 12, 2017, 02:06:25 pm
The other day I was reading a string of words that said something similar to "is annihilation really what you want?"  And of course I was thinking "yeah, bla blah, because reasons"   and then I caught it - the lie.
Do I really want annihilation? HELL NO! It's surprising how simple lies can be. Anyway the search is over I don't think I have any business here. One of the first things you said to me was to forget about you and forget this place exists and that's probably the wise thing to do.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on January 13, 2017, 08:28:26 pm
Could be ... for you. Best wishes.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on January 27, 2017, 03:25:44 am
Hi I would like to vent.
I pirated book 2 (audiobook) of your trilogy. Hearing all of Julie's writings and the in depth breakdown of the Ahab archetype was informative. Most of all it made me see a lot of stuff I could throw into autolysis so I figured I'd do a little bit of that.
It started very well, I put down the objective "write something true," and then 2 guys discuss it. Guy 1 says something true, guy 2 questions everything. Wicked... so i put it to work.

Very very quickly I've come to notice all the distractions in play. I'm doing minor contemplations and for the life of me I can barely concentrate. There's so much distraction- eat something, go sit on the bathroom counter, go sit on the bed, say something to Jed, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc I cannot emphasize enogugh the multitude of distractions. Just trying to concentrate is the most enraging thing I've encountered like damn! I went off loafing somewhere for a second and then realized it and I think I'm starting to understand the nature of captivity, when I notice it the rage is white hot, 0 to 100.. to 0   and then I can focus again for a few minutes... then a few minutes turned into a couple hours before it starts getting noisy again. Its like taking out the trash and having all the dogs in the neighborhood barking at you.

I just want to focus. Somehow this little endeavour put all of julie's writing into perspective and I hardly think I have what it takes. If I continue (no promises) I will likely vent here. Vent... not lick your damn boots. There's a huge distinction between whatever just transpired here and all that precious forum space and time of yours I previously wasted. With this maybe I can focus instead of thinking "say this say that blah blah tell jed say that blah blah"
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on January 29, 2017, 05:38:32 am
Like any good magician, Maya/ego is an absolute master of misdirection... anything to keep you off point, off balance... and off the subject... who/what you really are, your True Nature. However, you are on point and on task, stick with it, and I found your words gracious and moving.

Love ya, Jed
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on January 29, 2017, 05:11:11 pm
Time is growing a more precious to me so when I have to be at work I find myself thinking how it fits into the picture. I thought about this and found a box of books, feeling grateful I put them all into the garbage compactor. Whilst sweeping some dirt people kept getting in my space and I was taking it very personally and started getting agrivated. Upon seeing it I just saw that its maya and *poof* it just vanished and I've never witnessed such a vanishing. It seems like it also may have quickly done something else and I've been trying to construct a story about it "its-its integrated into the bleep blop etc." My point is that I can be patient with time-wasters and see where they lead. I structure my day around sitting down any typing. On my breaks at work I use the notepad on my phone, people keep barging in on me when I'm on break and I just stare at them until they finish and see that I'm waiting for them to leave.

I'm don't want to let circumstances pile up either. I got invited out and it seemed like the thing to do because lotsa stuff lined up and someone asked me if I'd take care of an animal, reflexively I said yes and reflexively I regretted it. Anyways while i was out it just seemed like people are trying to plug me back in- trying to set me up for dates and get jobs and do drugs and eat junk and waste time and not focus. Its very difficult for me to be patient with others when every second I'm ever vigilantly waiting for moments alone to do stuff and they're just hanging around wasting time like dopey mental patients. Anyways, hope this was worth your time.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on January 30, 2017, 01:07:30 am
Of course it's worth my time, I have an infinite amount of it... as do you.

Patience grasshopper, patience.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on January 30, 2017, 08:56:48 pm
I’m seeing a contradiction where Jed talks about memento mori and the methods we use to supress it. One of the methods mentioned was to imagine a continuation of some sort after death and after a brief check I’m doing that (supressing) with the supposedly T/R beings who are ‘dead’ yet walking around. There’s a lump of statements I can probably throw on to this pile and burn too, ‘there’s nobody to get enlightened’ (“coincidentally” posted the other day by Jed), and some others but I had a brain fart trying to remember. ‘You’re as dead now as you’ve ever been’

In other news I can't believe how much dumb 'spiritual' junk I've willingly retarded myself with. I didn't really think I read that many books but when I take a look at all the vague beliefs I pulled out of them I just want to cringe tightly into a black hole. "higher vibration" "Chakras" "meditation" "stillness" "kundalini (albeit known through experience)" and I'm sure the list continues "past lives" its just a matter of waiting for them to come to my attention. Funny how even at the start of Jed's first book he begins by calling out a girl for raising her vibrational... whatever and even reading that I was still immune to looking at it. I'm grateful that I only picked up these concepts within the last few years and the roots shouldn't be too deep... in that respect I'm also glad I'm young.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on February 01, 2017, 01:32:43 am
I'm learning how to pick at false self. I caught myself thinking up a scenario for what I should have done in a certain scenario and asked what does that say? What is the character that is being projected (and who would ask about it).
What am I trying to make others see
and every decision about what to type, what words to add etc, should I add more, do I want to show that I'm thorough, etc (do I want to show that I'm aware of that)
and that
and that
and that
and thatand that
oh look there's a typo and if i don't fix it some quality of self is shown
and there's a statement attempting to communicate awareness
etc
etc
if I edit it seems like I start crossing threads and weaving a fabric though so probably better not to
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on February 01, 2017, 10:42:11 pm
I nap like crazy right now, probably upwards of 15 hours today off and on
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on February 01, 2017, 11:51:51 pm
That's a standard Maya/ego defense mechanism... I suggest you do your ''work'' for a set time, say something like twenty minutes and then make yourself nab for a set time. Determine these times ahead of time and follow them.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on February 03, 2017, 02:46:45 am
I set some 30 minute intervals throughout my day.

On the topic of time, if you narrow down "the moment" infinitely far you're probably going to find infinite moments. Between 0 and 1 seconds there's infinitely small decimals in other words. I'm wondering if anything is static at all. Is it ever right now? Ideas tend to be static, but reality seems to be more like flux - at least that's how I seem to be able to fit infinity inside of anything. It's similar to when you dream (at night) and maybe you look at a clock, the clock will never settle down and say what time it is. I don't know, something here is getting a little frustrating and it'll probably be a simple "oh" tomorrow.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on February 03, 2017, 03:19:47 am
There is nobody to wake up from this dream.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on February 03, 2017, 09:50:03 pm
A person came by my house and when they were leaving they commented that they had to go let someone else's fukcin' dog outside. Default response for me is to say something along the lines of "its not the dog's fault" but I didn't say anything. I would have been providing a little bit of resistance to it and I think the point would be to erect my own boundary. I'm thinking maybe the point of friends is a comfortable zone to work on your fences together. Maybe, maybe not, its all the same when I throw it into the machine.
I read something about 'it' not being pointless, but pointlessness, and that feels somewhat accurate. I take any context and grind it to mulch, if you think there's a point in the mulch I'll make mulch of that point.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on February 04, 2017, 04:26:23 am
Hi there;

Sounds like you are doing fine. Remember, you are responsible for everything that appears to you and you are not at fault/guilty or anything, ever. The same applies to everyone in this particular dream.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on February 05, 2017, 08:26:53 pm
From your responses I guessed that you're nudging me towards relaxing a bit or something. I noticed that when I'm not writing I hold onto a lot of tension like its something I need to do, so I let that go at the swimming pool. Quite a bit of tension actually, then I was at work and instead of seething I was just bored so I decided to begin to **** with people in subtle ways. In retrospect I boobytrapped my house a little bit with obstacles because I knew my roommate was coming home. I started putting garbage cans and mop buckets in high traffic areas, watching people walk around this stuff consistently without even acknowledging its there is highly amusing and perplexing to me. Admittedly it gets borderline psychopathic when I start leaving knives in deep murky water but i don't really see the difference. Walking home I'm getting in the way of people when they veer off to the side so we can pass each other by. I digress...

A certain stagnation with my writing ceased as well, I'm finding more creative solutions to the same equations. I get stuck less.

I'm also hyper aware of minor inconveniences now.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on February 06, 2017, 12:21:14 am
Pure awareness is just that, ''Pure''. It cares not what is going on...

I like the knives in the dishwater... just start with dull ones.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on February 06, 2017, 07:05:16 am
I was playing my guitar and idley listening to people talk. I just got pissed off at the notes I was playing, threw the pick, and debated smashing the guitar. The guitar is okay... the story of Ahab tossing his pipe flashed through my mind. It isn't overly upsetting but I'm a little surprised how easy and automatic it is to just abandon something like that.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on February 07, 2017, 12:55:46 am
I moved through a doorway and I see more junk everywhere. Its like a humming mental process that I'm now aware of, yet hasn't broken down yet. I'm going to go ahead and assume that cleanup is necessary before any more icebergs become apparent because it seems impossible that there would be more steps... for the moment.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on February 07, 2017, 03:12:28 am
Do what thou will... enjoy.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on February 08, 2017, 12:30:00 am
There's different ways of looking at "who am I"
If you ask with the assumption that you wrote it you'll probably explore some ideas about yourself...
If look at the question like someone else wrote it down its a bit creepy.
I put down "I am dragontree"   who is the I that says they're DT? (who asks this, etc)  It feels alien, like someone else is "me."  It seems like [I'm] barging in on someone elses life  but both are likely maya, I just can't get outside it (there's an I trying to get outside? MAYA (who?(outside what?)))
Quite a tangle. "just keep swimming" -dori


-if you continuously hammer in the
"who said that?
who said who said that?
who says that there was someone who said that?
who deviated in the format of saying that?
who was aware of the deviation of form

...etc, it becomes apparent that the 'who' is not continuous. Each character becomes a finite frame of time (frame of I?) rather than a continuous image
- 'I' a slideshow of sorts (rarely seen as such
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on February 09, 2017, 07:07:10 am
Moving pictures are just a lot of fixed pictures... they only appear to move and be continuous.

Love ya, Jed
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on February 10, 2017, 11:58:07 pm
I was thinking about the idea of only ever seeing perceptions of the brain. If I'm going to argue with this apparent perceptual reality its laughable because In a certain sense I am (brain* is?) playing the environment and the dude wandering around in it getting upset about things. Its 2, a false split
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on February 11, 2017, 12:14:40 am
.... as are all splits...

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on February 16, 2017, 02:29:51 pm
Some things are pretty pervasive.

I cling pretty hard to things like physical fitness. I've never not had abs and being fit is the only point of leverage I really had growing up for getting consistent approval. Would I let myself get chubby? As of right now heck no, the thought of it makes me uncomfortable. (funny thing I've been eating a ton of junk lately as a distraction anyway)
Doesn't seem like this has much to do with truth but if i let these ugly tangles of self defining characteristics have free reign it always comes back to present itself as some kind of potent betrayal.

If one were to completely abandon context that seems like a pretty high stakes deal. I don't see why t/r dudes aren't all sitting there starving to death, why did what's his face even go to the cave in the mountains when he coulda just sat anywhere else and did nothing?? Probably a "come see for yourself" type answer.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on February 16, 2017, 10:28:33 pm
Probably...

Oh, and you might want to go to India where you can find many of those dudes who have given just about everything short of breathing.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on February 20, 2017, 06:59:37 am
When I need to reach around someone to get something done that person becomes the obstacle and suddenly there's thoughts and emotions saying they're the problem. The problem is not the problem, its the focus on the thing that causes the obstacle (problem) to exist.
In the same way the possibility of me becoming fat and whatnot only becomes a problem when I am identified as a body which is necessary to produce any objectives about improvement and survival.
To say that I am a body also assumes that the body is owned by the concept of I. Its using "the body" to affirm the existence of I.

Also I noticed something funky with the "sense of I am" thing which is that I had to turn that off before I could see a certain identification of I being placed before vision could be seen as belief. Somewhere along the line the existence thing got edited and swapped with kinesthetic sensation... its similar to how you can look back at memories and "see them in a different light." Maybe that breakup you had with a girl was terrible at the time but since it led to growth of your character blah blah blah I'm so grateful it was actually the best thing ever I didn't know it at the time.....etc. I don't know what that is or what its really doing but it reeks of maya
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on February 21, 2017, 04:50:45 am
Yes, it does reek of Maya... find something that doesn't.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on February 22, 2017, 11:51:59 am
Hey!
I just noticed something cool with self dialogue.

"I'm hungry"
"You just ate a grapefruit mothafucka"
*bing*
The thoughts seem like they're turned inwards and actually talking to a central hub or something. Pretending there's something there in the audience that they're talking to.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on February 22, 2017, 09:21:40 pm
If you talk to yourself then it must be easy for your awareness to become aware of your awareness.

Give it a try.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on February 23, 2017, 04:53:13 am
Failed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on February 23, 2017, 07:41:00 am
Try harder.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on February 23, 2017, 02:24:18 pm
Figuring I was ill equipped for this venture I began with a google search "aware of awareness."
After a bit of research I just decided to sit there and basically meditate. Noticing that I could not focus I decided to look at this little dot of grime on my computer speaker and I did my absolute best holding focus on it. Its seemingly impossible.
There's slight moments where it almost seemed like that little dot was intimately close and then everything is just screaming for attention. The only way to see the dot is to completely ignore maya. This has to do with attention. I gave it my all on that little dot (or was that maya too?) and I've never attempted something so difficult. Thoughts here appear as translucent blobs which are you and draw you in, they're supermagnets for attention and make it completely impossible to focus on the **** dot. "That little dot is my salvation" (the thought I remember losing hope at) was seemingly the icing on the cake and a swift kick in the nuts. Maya is impossibly powerful.
I see now why you mention in one of the books that Maya only needs a tiny fraction of her force to stomp out a rebellion.

Wasn't really what I was expecting for trying to be aware of awareness but ah well  :-\
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on February 23, 2017, 11:12:31 pm
You may doubt that it was good work, but I would rate it as excellent.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on March 01, 2017, 08:20:35 pm
I tried more dot staring but it lost all its juice in the initial attempt. You know before that I was almost starting to feel optimistic again about who knows what but nah, if you hang around and pester jed you're asking to be discontent.
There's no journey, no symptoms, no process, no this, no that, no icebergs to melt, no maya, no reason to flail around and punch your bed like an angry child, no double-jointed toes, and no hope.
I don't know... futility? Somewhere along the line I lost an ingredient that made me want to be more involved in this stuff and now I'm pretty much forcing myself to post rather than doing it compulsively.
Oh i Keep burning my left hand. I want ask how that somehow ties in with adulthood before the poor thing gets infected, rots and falls off. I frequently burn it and aggrivate all the wounds by accidentally tearing them open on things and then burn it again and its beyond me how that ties in to anything but it seems like a clear signal for something because it keeps happening. But i'm stuck with that lens "its a signal for something adulthoody" so far.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on March 02, 2017, 10:27:33 pm
It might be an idea to ask it what the problem is. Folks to stupider things and you might just get and answer.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on March 20, 2017, 09:56:55 pm
Hey, good news.
In the shower today out of nowhere I just decided to stop this constant criticism and just stick with the primary train (i want to say river) of thought. So I'm just in it and with it now and it just goes blah blah blah and its great. Basically I stopped judging myself under the guise of being aware of thoughts and in doing so hacked off at least half of the selfing (more if you consider that judging likely was judging judging and judging judging...).
There's absolutely no benefit to this but I know its a healthy step towards self rather than the constant creation of barriers from it.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on March 23, 2017, 09:56:58 am
I encourage healthy steps... take as many as you can.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on March 30, 2017, 08:08:28 pm
I`m quite depressed these days. Sometimes I get out of bed and just hate being alive for the majority of the day, and other days its the opposite. Its kinda like a psychological fever. On a depressed day I just started walking in front of traffic and stuff because I really didn`t care what drivers were doing (or would think) and its surprisingly liberating in a way. When someone asks how my day is I can just say "kill me" instead of putting on that happy person facade. So that's what the whole nice guy behaviour revolves around - pretending to be happy.

Oh and I've noticed a thing that keeps happening and it has to do with this forum. Every other day I think of a question that I want to post here and eventually come around to the conclusion that its not worth it to bother or I forget about it. What happens is I check out this place within a day or two and someone posts my (exact) questions, this happens a lot. One day I even thought of posting an open ended request for a koan because I was bored, thought against it, and one was posted the next day. Its peculiar and I'm not doing it on purpose.

What else... I've been working on that pointer "be aware of awareness" and occasionally meditate if I feel like sitting around. I just focus on my belly and say "I" as I exhale to get that I-am-ness. Honestly its quite disappointing, don't really know why.

Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on March 31, 2017, 05:01:41 am
If you don't want disappointments then stop making appointments (expectations)... then things can become delightful.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on April 06, 2017, 02:18:43 pm
Doing the I am focus eventually raised the question "why am I trying to be what I am?" This somehow makes me not worry about circumstances of my life to produce any result, it can't.

The depression I was having started up one morning with the dialogue "you'll never get enlightenment" and eventually I basically said "fine" because it really doesn't matter and the thing toppled.

I've been into bineural beats lately for meditation. I don't really know if it helps but it does make it more of an activity to sit down for a little while. In meditation what I've been noticing the area where everything springs out of nothing and dissolves into nothing. It changes your relationship to experience slightly, I notice my personality comes mostly out of an already present feeling rather than directly out of nothing the majority of the time. Sometimes I get scared, if you can look right at the fear it can dissolve and looking right at it makes it a lot smaller than it appears when you resist (most of the time I'm a major wuss though). Somehow my current favourite thing is to watch the sensation of a smile dissolve into nothing. I forgot where I was going with this, thanks for reading anyhow. :-*
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on April 07, 2017, 11:23:35 pm
...and thank your for sharing.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on April 13, 2017, 04:57:00 pm
After reading a few books written by supposedly enlightened people I've come to the realization that I'm not a serious person. I don't wish to struggle with that perceived lack of ambition anymore. And then there's that - the decision not to struggle. Its a pretty fine-toothed comb, I noticed that I still take pointers and use them to paint the canvas rather than chip the paint. The one on my mind is that I believed in no experiencer and jammed that idea on top of the experience where I still perceive an experiencer, effectively denying what I would call a personal truth in favour of some stuff I read.

To me it seems like there is an experiencer, someone seeing behind the eyes. I ask what is seeing and I receive a faint signal where I KNOW I'm seeing, its so confident, and the sensation/thought can be traced back to a faint tension in the chest,

Its weird how whenever I investigate any sensory input and ask who/what is perceiving it seems so blatantly obvious that its me there like some central hub receiving it all yet at the same time if I ask who/what am I there is no satisfactory answer or way of investigating.

At the same time all this mental vomit is being produced there's a lot of doubt about everything. Yesterday I even googled great doubt. I've been doing quite a bit of sitting and watching thoughts and it has brought me back to a frame of mind where I just see them and don't even have to judge, its just known that its not, and yet not really...
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on April 14, 2017, 02:32:38 am
 ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

I doubt you totally, suck it up princess.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on April 15, 2017, 08:38:26 am
"You are your faith, without it you are not" -Charles Manson

I think it clicked. Its not so much hearing thoughts but listening to them. Fairly subtle, but if they aren't about you its difficult to stay interested. Its more like ew get off please.
Think I can hang up the phone now, take care.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on April 15, 2017, 10:21:10 am
Uhhh... I don't understand... but that's o.k., I don't understand anything.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on April 21, 2017, 02:22:54 pm
Through a coincidental chain of events I am back on track.

If you've reasoned your way out of doing your 'work' I suggest the book War Of (On?) Art. It'll help with procrastination.

I've simply decided to a minimum of 2 hours of work a day with no distractions (such as posting findings to JEd!!) until afterwards.

Today I feel relief of the recurring anxiety and thoughts about truthish subjects... the formula is simple. Just do the work. If you do the work you don't have to worry anymore.

Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on April 23, 2017, 04:03:49 pm
If you happen to experience unreasonable happiness it seems to be a logical stopping point. Why continue? It stopped me before but perhaps now that it lost its novelty its easier to see through.

Bliss is resistance. The only reasoning behind this statement is that it will give you temptation to stop, probably because discontent is no longer the fuel that can drive the car from that point on. The fuel which will carry you on the long haul is further. Further will remind you that any possible reason to stop what you are doing is resistance. She is cunning.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on April 24, 2017, 05:08:12 am
Screw bliss... you got to blast right on through it.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on April 26, 2017, 01:27:05 am
Man I got into a typing frenzy.//

The biggest questions I get now are so vague and general and sneaky. Its always something like what is THIS or what is IT, is it this is it that, is there an it?
its so ****
is it ****? see how it just snuck in there? AND THERE? trying to illuminate questions by whatever means just makes IT sneak in the back door.
I've never felt so **** crazy just chasing around a stupid vague term like this or that but its always...  >:(  is it always? what is it that's always? is there an it thats always.
etcetecera
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on April 27, 2017, 02:36:39 am
 ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on April 28, 2017, 08:42:59 pm
Examining the structure of hte SA I do it always seems to boil down to:
It is this.
Is it this?
Is what this?
Is there this?

Listening to incorrect on the way home to work I heard the part of Julie's SA where she says stuff like
"there's only this. THIS!"
"This is the one true blasphemy, This is the one true heresy"


I'm feeling a little stuck on this. The content is irrelevant, it always boils down to this and it.

-
I was trying to enlist help here. In any case this is what is true, or in any case I find it what is taken to be true, yet at the same time only seems to be a mental partitioning function. Alternatively it refers to the context at hand.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on April 29, 2017, 08:34:14 pm
Have you been writing out something that is true?

Perhaps give me an example.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on April 30, 2017, 04:43:34 pm
Everything I’m going to type out is pigeonholed into a realm of concepts which contain meaning only in hypnotization. Meaning will appear to appear which then causes attention to become strangled into a focused point and pointed only at pieces of a whole so the entire screen is narrowed to pixels which are then labeled and strung together for reuptake of the entire process as a feedback loop.

Language breaks down into a mental pattern associated with recalled images and sounds. 

All of reality itself is within this aware space which has the potential to appear as anything and disappear (never actually becoming anything of substance). What’s true must lie beyond all appearances perhaps even as a fact or value which provides the space for nothing to be anything.



This stuff doesn't really strike me as true so much as the best I can come up with. I've had the top story come back a billion times and as much as I piece it apart I'm not hitting the underlying belief (if there is such a thing). Difficulty locating any worthwhile question.

A couple underlying thoughts that may be of more use:
I can’t do this.
Everything I think of is not true - truth can't be thought of

Are thoughts untrue?

I think I got this one  :)
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on May 01, 2017, 12:34:39 am
Good, now get up off your ass and go out and do nothing with it. :o :o :o :P

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on May 02, 2017, 10:02:03 pm
I noticed after finding a few beliefs that these beliefs were built specifically to fill in a certain aspect of my identity. Something vague like being ahead of the curve, smart, superior paradigm, (adjective). Its actually starting to make sense how you can become undone doing this.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on May 04, 2017, 05:34:06 am
Whoa.. watch out when things start making sense....

Land mines there.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on May 04, 2017, 02:08:47 pm
How could I know or say with any certainty that “this is what I am?”

Even if I were to find out what it is I still don’t know what it IS


Knowing is inadequate, its like if i were to find what I am the last thing I could do is BE what it IS. Assuming it is.
There's something I really want to understand but i can't put words to. There's a mug on my desk and if I knew infinite information about it, that would be inadequate. I want to know what the mug is. I want to know what is is.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on May 05, 2017, 05:27:28 am
Define ''is'' and you will have a good start, in one sense there actually is an answer, in an other sense there isn't, and in a third sense, nothing makes sense.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on May 05, 2017, 05:58:48 pm
Well your response made no sense (aka the third sense) so I stuck with defining what "is" and it basically comes down to my attribution of objective reality, then i bump up against a belief of only being aware of a world inside a mind or something and off I go...

...and it comes down to the question is nothing outside of this?
I thought there was a nothing outside of a bubble. Ugh this is such a baffling matter I can't even shake my thinking stick at it, it's too dang senseless to try. And I bet after that you're twirling your evil mustache and noddin gyour head at the "senseless" thing. And I bet after that its **** further again >:(
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on May 07, 2017, 05:17:44 am
... the odds are in your favor.. now... further.

Love ya, Jed
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on May 09, 2017, 03:35:44 pm
What is that epiphany generating sense that led me here? I've probably read the same 5 or 6 of Jed's responses hundreds of times, I don't really understand why the scent must be followed. It never goes anywhere. I recall reading one of the books where Jed was elaborating on prisons that wall out and some part of my brain went "wait what?"
Some joker goes around the village and rallies up the army until it decides to march on the enemy but they're just lead into a desert and they march until they die of thirst. Its like someone else is trapped here looking through the same eyes but he has to make the most obtuse and indirect commands for any communication to happen or any objectives to be completed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on May 10, 2017, 04:26:47 am
Wanna join me in a march into the desert?

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on May 13, 2017, 04:54:28 pm
With your latest rant I've been closely watching how I relate with people. I was sitting down and my roommate came through the door and said "hi." Reflexively I computed a tone of response with the intention of making him act more of a certain way, then let it all go. After a little while I came to notice that the same mechanism that attempts to squeeze other into a mould is doing the exact same thing internally through the way I relate to my self.

This explains the vast majority of my social behaviours and I'm grateful for the 'smart-bomb.' Its been a large roundabout answer to the question I had awhile ago which was something like "why isn't everybody like me?"

Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on May 16, 2017, 05:25:46 am
Funny isn't it, when you realize that you aren't even like you, and yet expect others to be...  :D :D :D

Love ya, Jed
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on May 17, 2017, 07:55:35 pm
I've been thinking about that last reply quite a bit. I don't really know who this guy is and the best way to find out is to let him wander the world unimpeded . When I spot those times I try to control others I just spin it into a joke, maybe write it down for later, and laugh it off. Instead of typing randomly (in SA) until I find something interesting I've just been waiting for the times I resist the world and go into those moments with writing later on. It seems to me this is 'skillful means' (term got stuck in my head earlier). I dunno today reading the writing on this forum it all just seems a lot more personal. is that paradoxical? its shrugworthy ;D
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on May 18, 2017, 12:39:40 am
Every experience is ''shrugable''.

Love ya, Jed.

P.S. Why? Because it's an experience... and besides, I said so.  :o :o :o ::) ::) ::)  :P
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on May 20, 2017, 11:42:51 am
A few days ago someone made a mean joke at my expense so i went into it and decided that the root is being too much of a "nice" person, acting in a way that cares about what they think or something along those lines. So I decide I need to start saying no to others more often or something.

I received an email outlining my work schedule for the following week and I've been getting more and more days I told the employer I didn't want up to a point where I'm going to be working a week of night shift which I explicitly denied at some point, so I just quit. It made perfect sense to quit, I have no idea how I'm going to make rent next month or anything but I'm surprised how easy it was to just leave. A few weeks ago I felt that there was no way I could just walk out.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on May 26, 2017, 04:09:31 pm
ok so lately I've been doing away with the other (so to speak). example: "I hate that guy" translates to "I hate myself." theres a lot of stuff to do and I'll spare you elaboration.

It makes a ton of sense to work this way when I encounter all these petty offences. I've worked through a couple of them and there's always a huge difference in my world afterwords. I don't know if there's actually a difference but enemies become friends and all that, it seems like affecting the perception has external ramifications. And these are all very petty, when I started it was a few bigger things but the digger you deep the more and more petty and numerous these things get, I jot notes to tackle these things, put notifications on my phone, make mental notes. I'm not keeping up, each little offence takes close to half an hour to thoroughly work through and its worth every one. I'll strike the sun if it offends me. Mountains of work, 1 thing at a time. I'm not really in a hurry.

There its off my mind i would like to sleep.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on June 02, 2017, 07:12:01 pm
"Hey I watched that show you mentioned"
"did you like it?"
"uhhh"
I hadn't noticed at first, but it seems that striking away the thingy(s) that make me dislike things is also taking away the likes of things. Both being the same cheap-high. I had a lucid dream the other night where instead of the normal pattern of noticing its a dream and flying around the world going on a sex rampage I instead checked out the grass. Its very real seeming, perhaps realer than reality*.

I read from damndest "...enlightenment is independent of consciousness"
ugh. Why bother?

I've been following a trend towards 'adulty' things. Uprooted this people-pleasing thing and I can't leave the house without pissing people off. I think its great, sometimes you're left thinking "damn lighten up will ya!" When I quit my job I got offers for everything I previously asked for (and was declined) and I turned down these propositions for different hours, pay raise, and all that. It was interesting to see the moment they lost hope of me remaining there to help out. I eat hope for breakfast. Are people only happy with me if I do what they want? If so, they can suck it.

I'm starting to wonder if homelessness is really bad at all. I could probably eat a can of beans a day and be A OK, and knowing that I'm at least a little bit afraid of it I'll probably end up taking a tour at some point. Doing nothing these past few days has really led to me wondering how my current situation fits and what could possibly be next. Exciting!
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on June 04, 2017, 02:10:42 am
 ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on June 08, 2017, 02:30:34 am
I was killing time, turned on a movie and bam! Saw a guy in a uniform and I've had this unshakeable idea that I need to go join the military. I checked out some positions where I could be a pencilpusher or something but trashed the idea in favour of going for something like a grunt (more likely to face combat). It seems to make a lot of sense but at the same time I'm afraid of getting killed  :-\   Might have to go... march into a desert (wonder how long that idea has been cooking up).
For now I need to figure out why I'm hesitant to go, in the meantime my options are drying up forcing my hand to a certain extent. I asked for the next thing to make itself known and it did and it sucks  :)
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on June 10, 2017, 12:53:50 am
.... only to a mind, Truth couldn't care less.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on June 11, 2017, 09:04:04 pm
Aware of awareness... even shifting awareness to a leg for example is automagic. I'm not awareness. What could possibly be left? Gears are turning every now and then in the brain and I don't like it, well, its not liked.
Can't really force acceptance, like in your happiness post you say embrace your misery and I come at it from a veiled angle as to eliminate it by embracing it,,, embracing is probably not what's going on. Every question that arises along that string is from the want to eliminate it and the want doesn't seem to go away.
Should I want to not want misery to go away? Just kidding, same thing.
Wish I could just be satisfied to some degree :'(
Is that the issue? it seems to imply belief in unsatisfied-ness but I'm beginning to think I've never actually hit a belief and i'm still spinning in circles for motion.
The same issues have always been popping up and I've only ever had bandaid solutions.


drama, and an urge to show that its not drama
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on June 13, 2017, 08:50:10 am
Like Comey, I am feeling mildly nauseous. What are you saying?

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on June 19, 2017, 04:23:06 am
Jed are you sentient?   If I were to guess you'd say something along the lines of nobody to be sentient. What I'm really trying to figure out is if I'm sentient... Is there anything to be sentient? No. Is there sentience? A part of me seems to think that in absence there is some kind of sentience and that is stemming from an assumption about what "awake" means. That must be missing the mark, if it means anything it gotta be sleep, like there's anything to mean anything.


I usually feel ashamed in some way when I post. I don't approve  ???
I don't like that I think I'm a dabbler.
I sigh when I login to see that Jed responded.
I think he thinks i'm not a serious person for this forum's purpose so I'm wasting his time and should buzz off [now replace him with me]
I think I think [who] i'm not a serious person for this forum's purpose so I'm wasting my time and should buzz off. Hah! (is there any value in doing that?)
Can autolyse these, you're welcome for the dizziness
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on June 19, 2017, 05:27:11 am
Sentience is a concept. How real is that?

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on June 26, 2017, 07:10:20 am
Are thoughts simply a reaction to a stimulus I am not aware of? When thoughts come one after another the "linkage" from the first to the second can be observed in retrospect as an assumed knowledge. It seems like beliefs hide in this unobservable, thought-causing shroud but perhaps by questioning how thoughts are chained to one another is it possible to dissolve the links?
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on June 26, 2017, 11:32:01 am
You know what instead of figuring out what I 'believe' its of much more use to figure out what I 'know.' It's minor but it makes a large difference
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on June 26, 2017, 11:20:40 pm
Tell me exactly what you ''know''. What you know with absolute certainty down to the level of your illusory cells.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on July 06, 2017, 07:44:12 am
I did the knowledge question for a bit and it just... I don't know why I even brought it up. Its just avoiding that one question - what is true?
I suck at it (or so it seems). Whenever I sit there to do it nothing even gets typed anymore. Mostly I just avoid doing it altogether and it bums me out that I don't have the passion possessed by an Ahab character. I've seen a pattern where I feel inadequate and then expect something to push me to do the work and then nothing comes along so I start doing the work and the previous sentence fits the bill.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on July 06, 2017, 12:02:39 pm
 ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on July 09, 2017, 06:54:58 am
With the statement "Truth exists" I've spent time trying to imagine what Truth could be while simultaneously being aware that i'm not going to imagine or conceptualize it. Is it of more use to just examine the statement and observe in wonder? It just seems so independent of anything I'll ever do or pretend to amount to. My world seems trivial compared to that statement as if I could only proceed by applying a knife to my wrist to exit the apparent non-truth premises
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on July 09, 2017, 07:50:41 am
I suggest you don't kill yourself, just kill the illusion that there is a ''self''.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on July 12, 2017, 04:52:01 pm
I dug around here in these forums and read something you wrote about recording and erasing. I do nearly everything automatically and zoned out - if there's anything about my life that is asleep its all that (time] spent in unconscious automation. I'm going to dedicate the next few days to just being as un-automatic as possible. This morning I went and made a cup of coffee and it was pretty discouraging how difficult it was but in the same way I broke away from a few things before I can probably erase some of this by putting floodlight attention on it as much as possible.

Kill the robot!
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on July 24, 2017, 06:46:54 am
Did SA and a question led to weirdness and me curled up in the fetal position on my chair terrified that I may get sucked out.
Naturally, I turn to my life to see if there's anything that can be salvaged or anything enjoyable enough to distract me. Theres a cute girl but I can never manage anything in that area of my life
So then its just bleh. Pancaking back into depression. Yet again struck by dislike for life and fear/avoidance of SA... every time a little worse than the last, this time quite a bit. Dream, no dream, i don't really care just please life open whichever one is more tolerable
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on August 10, 2017, 09:45:27 pm
^gross.

There’s an underlying assumption that as it is now I cannot say it and then once truth realized it would still be hard to express, yet it would be ‘known.’ If I don’t know why am I trying to explain? Reduce the false – how can you really know the false without also knowoing TRUTH\. “It has always been known” go **** yourself, you know that I know that I don’t know. The condition as of now (as is told) is that I am the thing standing in the way, I cannot make myself go, and if I did how would that change anything if it were never there in the first place? At best it’s a scam capitalizing on emotional upheaval. “yeah just keep beating your head on that rock, you’ll see that the rock is actually composed of blood, skull fragments and brain tissue.”
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on August 10, 2017, 09:47:20 pm
I only assume that I’m living a false life because its uncomfortable as it is. Just plug into that truth idea and fire away until something happens because your condition is that of unrest. Oh yeah, just take the I out of everything… it doesn’t seem that significant but its pretty damn pervasive. “it was never there in the first place” GREAT and it isn’t hanging out anywhere so it seems yet why is it hanging around in every sentence? Is that indicative of an illusion? Can there be illusion with nobody to fool?
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on August 11, 2017, 03:59:19 am
Illusion is only an appearance as is the one perceiving it. The key is what are they both appearing within.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on August 15, 2017, 06:41:43 am
"Illusion is only an appearance as is the one perceiving it. The key is what are they both appearing within."

Well they aren't going to appear without awareness.
is that true?
Irrelevant.
Does awareness appear within anything? Consciousness?
It seems like I'm finding "bigger" words to direct the search back into concepts.

I mean the questions keep stating that awareness,illusion, etc, are IN something, or that there's SOMETHING for them to be in. Next is that there even IS awareness...

None of this is new ground so I'm curious if I missed the key entirely. In the meantime I'll keep wondering what everything appears in.


Forget it Jed I don't know why I assume you know things. Because you write books? I'm not even certain that you're the same guy. I'm pretty sure based on how you talk, but 99% ain't good enough... I don't KNOW. Bottom line: waiting around for a pointer is a fear tactic, especially since its coming from outside. I guess this is a good time to state that no outside influence is worth really going for. Its not like you know what I think I know, you know?

Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on August 17, 2017, 01:05:09 am
I know nothing, as nothing is knowable.. but I know you are on the right track and looking to yourself for authority. That's good in my books.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on August 18, 2017, 06:38:18 am
So I'm doing some writing, I get to "assumes you are anything" and TWANG  (weird hot stringsnap feeling in chest).
Okay that is all, I get in the shower start thinking about how some people can't pee unless they hear water or something and relate it to evolution, then immediately "GOD I'M F U C K I N G DUMB!"
On its own sure its easy to say I'm retarded but after getting hit by the bomb of 'Are you not anything' I'm curious if Maya is able to slip one by on a technicality perhaps by dumbness being thought of as a 'quality' and not a 'thing' so maybe there's some categorization mechanic stacked against me but I suppose in the end it's irrelevant if I keep at it.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on August 19, 2017, 09:25:23 am
Dear DT:

Do you have the DT's?

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on August 23, 2017, 05:05:52 am
I don't understand the question
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on August 24, 2017, 06:38:38 am
The DT's have issues, problem is I don't know what. I've been looking for the band-aid for the "issue" ever since I can remember. The DT's have been saying suicidal **** all day so I'm wondering if I should just get meds or something. It's not appealing because happiness has never made me happy, its got that scooped out hollow aspect to it. DT (#2 of ????) says the only reason Jed would possibly want to talk you out of suicide is if there's insider information or (and much more likely) we're the target audience for book sales and weird program enrolment.
Any guru (worth his salt) probably wouldn't give a damn.

DT's have been noticing that with every other "is that true" takedown of an idea there's a short followup of DT imagining hitting things, breaking things, slamming my head on the desk, etc, however, acting on these ideas never satiates. It actually makes me feel dumb. Its just rage that cannot hope to achieve expression.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on August 26, 2017, 03:41:48 am
You right about not giving a damn... so true .. as much as anything can ever be true.

Love ya, Jed.

P.S. You might be a little disappointed... I don't try to talk people out of suicide. They usually do that themselves.

Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on August 27, 2017, 07:59:36 am
That's fine if I'm talking about suicide I'm generally directing negative attention towards myself.

Anyways I had a short dream where "clearly dad mistook me for mom" and I'm surprised. I'm not sure if I'm repressing stuff or making stuff up on the spot but the rationale is that of a child.
The piece fits and can resolve numerous shady corners of " my life"  into clarity but I'm not sure. A bit glad though.

More SA and weird stuff will probably keep showing up all on its own.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on August 27, 2017, 08:04:37 am
Probably will, but don't give it too much attention.


Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on August 29, 2017, 04:51:42 am
I read your "about maya" rant and let that mull about in my head all day.
I've definitely noticed the fatigue you mentioned...
Since I've been writing more frequently there's just been more and more things popping up which requires my time, haven't had a free weekend in recent memory.

In Damndest, there's a part where Jed is talking about the TV show getting closer to the end of the season so the characters are made more likeable (so you'll tune in next season). Lately I've been going through a battery of sentimental bullshit, friends are moving closer to me, family keeps hitting me up and making plans, yada yada, people getting married every weekend, the cat usually bothers me when I write (I kick her out now). If I mention anything I'm doing at all people weave their stupid threads around mine (a confidential plan policy is being implemented).

In Incorrect, Julie mentions that she doesn't know someone would do it with people around without going crazy. This mechanic is likely what she was talking about (where people turn into agents (the matrix  ::))of maya).
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on August 29, 2017, 04:59:37 am
Yes, one can make the characters more friendly and likable, however, I have come to realize that there is a more effective way.

Make them more bitchy, make the struggles more difficult and deeper, build a crescendo of almost unimaginable human drama.... and then see who takes the bate.

Well, who knows.. just a thought... one among three in the last week or so.

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on September 01, 2017, 05:29:46 am
"Yes, one can make the characters more friendly and likable..."
I wasn't doing this intentionally, I don't know if its actually happening (just seems to be the trend), and I don't know if it could be done intentionally.

The metaphors about falling or drowning are a little more on point than I would have imagined. When the rabid disbelief things starts picking up the pace it seems like I can let go... this drums up an awful lot of scary thoughts
"you don't exist"
"its meaningless"
etc.,
They're very sticky thoughts.
I'm so used to seeing you write those things (fear bargaining?) that I am able to be aware of them when they arise and be aware of the fear instead of (whatever) by it. Appreciate the conditioning.

But saying this, posting, giving in to these weird little temptations is frantic swimming. Its not though (and its not that its not (it?)).

I can see this whole "must report results to Jed" process and it is not helping me one bit. If I continue to linger on this forum its slavery. Can;t unsee. It seems like something valuable to lose at the moment but I'm used to the trend and (I'll) probably be disinterested pretty soon anyway.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on September 02, 2017, 03:57:07 am
All good...

Love ya, Jed.
Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on October 10, 2017, 07:44:30 am
No questions Jed I just want to rant about "life" stuff which I think you think is boring.

Mom wants me to see grandma. Haven't seen her in long enough to knower, I don't want to contact grandma.

The context can be altered - go and meet with an old lady. It's more attractive to do at this point but around the time I consider this..
I don't hink I've ever given a **** about family affairs but I attend anyway. Why must Impress people I never see or think about? I only see and think about them when I'm there trying to impress them only so that I don't disappoint them.

There's a funeral coming up and I don't want to go. I told mom I'd go but then this happens. As far as family is concerned I want to disappear and be untreachable. I've been to a funeral before and it sucked, why do another? we can be more creative
Its the same with friends... its starting. I find myself at the table in a bar somewhere listening to the same conversations on repeat wondering when I can leave. Its just like being a kid bored at grandmas house. The only reason I stick around and try to participate is obligations..
obligations beget obligations but they are not obligatory ;D

ps: breathing getting better!
Title: Re: subject
Post by: Jed McKenna on October 12, 2017, 06:49:12 am
You sound a lot like me in my youth.

After attending a cremation of 26 bodies in Bali, it refused to attend another western funeral. When my father passed away, the fam asked if I was going and I said ''no''. No explanation required, they knew I that I knew what I was doing. They all attended and never, ever asked me why I didn't.

If you don't want to go to grandma's then going is going to be hurtful to all parties. Is that what you really want to do? Where is your respect for your own intuitions. ... and where is your mother's respect for you?

I know I am coming on a little strong here, especially for a dreamed matter, but making decisions for yourself is a big deal if you ever want to grow up.

Love ya, Jed.

Title: Re: subject
Post by: DragonTree on October 18, 2017, 07:53:36 am
Thank you, I appreciate the surprisingly rational questions.

--
I've had this idea that all thoughts are the same thought. The one same tree, somehow viewed as infinite variety. If you were in a forest of 1 duplicate tree and you wanted to convince me why certain trees were important, unique, special, (whatever), I would find it amusing. My point is that there's no strategy or paradigm within thoughts, just wandering through the (apparent) woods.

I've sat around being highly mindful of breath and observing thoughts as they arise. I center awareness on the thoughts and they disappear and I'm brought to awareness every time, every single thought has the same effect as "I am" when centered on.
Yesternight I was doing this and noticed some kind of mental jaggedness. It's like there's a glitch, it's similar to a youtube video which lags and catches up quickly and it's subtle. Hopefully not a brain tumor. I can reproduce the glitch to some extent so I'll let you know how the investigation goes. Whisper in my ear says its just maya but I have to participate until interest fades.