Author Topic: Do you have a body? Seriously... let's explore that....  (Read 4302 times)

Jed McKenna

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Thanks for sharing your thoughtful analysis.

Don't forget that understanding is the booby prize. It is enough that you don't misunderstand (stealing Nis's words).

Love ya and stay well,

Jed.
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Iam that Iam

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Hi Jed.

 Indeed  I enjoy your rants very much they help me to be in the right track when a distraction comes. How came  I started my day in focus awareness from the moment I get up in the morning and through the day, I notice the stillness within and nothing affect me since I kind of feel that everything around and even thoughts and my own body is not real. I enjoy doing this but as soon I open my eyes next morning everything around it remains me all the dream state again and I can feel maya pulling me down. Is not showing not even little   effort I did day before, how come this happen?? this is being going on and on for days.
Any answer  Jed? what  can I do more then focus and intend?
 
Love ya my dear Guru

Jed McKenna

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Hi there:

I have used the metaphor of walking up a staircase surrounded by fog and clouds. One day you will take that last step without realizing it. Nothing will be under your feet and you  will fall in a most joyous manner. Just stick with what you are doing. There is no substitute for patience and persistence.

Love ya, Jed.

Iam that Iam

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Jed;

 A BIG THANK YOU for your reply. I will keep doing it there is nothing left here, no meaning  in this dream  lie.

Be well. Love ya I am that   

Jed McKenna

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Cheers mate... or miss...

Love ya, Jed.

eldonko

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Hi all.  My thoughts:

I see wide open sense perception, and then the mind choosing to create an object out of it, and then all the relationships follow from that (like/dislike, etc).  ie.  from one big field of experience we call sight, the mind moves and contracts around a part of it, and creates an object, and the mind's knowledge of the thing creates its relationship with it. All of the relationships the mind makes seem to be related back to the body object that it makes, which I feel like probably has a bunch of interesting ramifications that I haven't contemplated.  so then it seems to me that all objects are created by the mind from something that inherently has no objects in it, specifically for the mind so it can have relationships, including the body object, which might be kind of fundamental for the rest of the objects to have relevance.  that is my experience, and how the idea of a body gets answered for me, thanks for helping me get that clear.

So does that mean that if the idea of a body disappears that all the other constructed ideas fall away from lack of relevant relationship?  hence the body and all the other objects 'disappear'.  Jed is this related to what is meant by putting on the character for you?  a sort of re-engaging with the mind and it's beliefs, in a limited way, to be functionally relevant? 

Or, back to the question, I try to imagine deep sleep fundamental awareness, just filled with awareness to bursting, but not noticing it is aware, with no knowledge of there ever hacing been a different state experienced, just it alone, being and shining, that feels like more of an answer to the question.  but that state would never ask a question so it could answer it, so maybe the body idea has its merits.  or did it?
  aside, did anyone ever wonder what happens between waking state and deep sleep?  there must be some kind of transition there that we miss?  maybe if that could be witnessed there would be an experiential answer to this.

Hmmm.

Be well all, happy looking is good looking  ;)

Jed McKenna

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Hi E:

Welcome to the forum. I follow exactly what you are saying and that has been, pretty much, my experience. When all concepts dissappear, the body, being just another concept, also goes. Then you have to put on some kind of character or 'suit' to come back and play. Stay in that 'no concept' space can be challenging in some strange ways.

Stick with you search and studies. You are on the 'right' rabbit trail.

Love ya, and stay healthy,

Jed.

Iam that Iam

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Dear Guru.
 Wanted to up date what's happening in the field.
A lot of  insights coming, The mind was born, don't know how was created but it was Cause I know  that I am. "The beginning of time". Before of  mind didn't know I was or I existed. In the beginning of time  mind created, Was comfortable trusting I don't know what but  something   was and is always , don't know if you understand I  don't try to confuse you . Everything... I will say with capital letters EVERITHING  is a lie. And we are  always  repeating the lies in the head and with actions we confirm the illusion of doing- being.   A big LIE very, very difficult to break maybe impossible since is mind-Maya- organs-thoughts, feelings and believes who have  the illusory world of 360" grades . Now I know I exist NO as a MIND_BODY OR FEELINGS I'm TRASPACING THIS LIMITED EXISTEENCE IN THE WAY THAT I CAN'T STOP IT. THANKS TO YOU feels that my power comes from an infinity source. How come didn't know this before mind created???? There is no power outside Jed, Now I know what is to  break, bend  the boundaries from the mind .I feel very much appreciative .

LOVE YA I am that

Jed McKenna

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Hi there:

Thanks you for your email. I would guess you are not a native English speaker, (I may be mistaken) however, you express yourself very well indeed and I understand where you are and your experiences. Stick with it.

If you don't have my Full Body Breathing tape, it's free, if you write me at cambodianashram@gmail.com.

Love ya and best wishes,

Jed

Iam that Iam

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Thank you dear Jed  for you're reply.

Yeah I do have the Full Body Breathing tape. But what breathing has to do with being. Breathing is part of the mind anyway
I'm I missing something? Anyway I will practice the exercise.

Be well, Love ya I

anthropisces

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The body can't be real because there is no way to join "body" and "real".

"Real" implies a foundation and a foundation doesn't exist. Neither science or any other faith has distilled "realness" from all of the available information. Science has not deduced "real" from any part or arrangement of information, including the most basic of of arrangements know to science (such as solutions to Schrodinger's equation) to the extent that a final fundamental realness is established. So if a human mind were to surmise that "it" had a body then that would have to be a belief.

Realness and the human mind are incompatible. The human mind must build icons to represent the "real".  But any icon will either lack information, or include superfluous information. It would be impossible for a human mind to exactly construct an icon that matched actual. A proof of the mind's inability to produce an exact icon for actual is easy to deduce. For example I can grasp that there is a pencil on my desk, but I don't know the relative spacial coordinates of any particular sub-atomic particle of that pencil to some sub-atomic particle inside a star in the Andromeda galaxy. So therefore my understanding of the pencil is incomplete and anything I claim to know is a belief based on a shoddily constructed icon.

So all beliefs are false and the belief that a "you" has a "body" is logically false.

Also, I was staring at my right arm and it looks really cool and surreal
« Last Edit: November 19, 2020, 05:03:53 pm by anthropisces »

Jed McKenna

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Good explanation, logical and consise, now... you can put your 'mind' aside, and move on to you feelings and experiences. How does it feel to not be real... not really there. I suggest you dwell on that for a while. The mind, well... it's more of a problem than a solution, so just let it go.
Good work,

Love ya, Jed

anthropisces

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I knew I wasn't my body for a couple of weeks- Then I went snowboarding and lost a screw in my binding and had to limp it down the mountain and wait and wait in line to get a new screw at the parts counter and during that I was a self again, a body, in control and impatient (and that's being generous). Three hours lost on a day with twenty-four inches of dry, perfect powder on an uncrowded mid-week day. Has Nisargadatta ever snowboarded? He might be pissed off about waiting for a screw himself if he experienced watching fat snow crystals falling outside the window while waiting in a hot line for a seemingly trivial part. He'd pretty much forget about the exciting life of a cigarette salesman if he knew the joys, ah but its his karma to do as he did, no changing that.

Later on after I settled down about the screw, then I knew I wasn't a body again for a while, sheer bliss-not kidding. But you said that dogs are the most advanced beings on the planet so I went and brought another one into the house and the dog obviously wishes to go out after game birds and who am I to argue since the dog is more advanced than I am.

So then I'm stuck in the swamp (and I mean literally stuck in a "real as it gets" non-metaphorical, actual swamp), with the boat motor dead and the tide coming in and its going to sleet that evening, and its me and the dog, marooned in the mud. There's spin offs to that sort of thing. After the narrowest of escapes, for weeks this I will be tweaking the boat motor, preparing freeze dried meals, putting a survival kit together in a water-tight bag, maybe buying a satellite phone. A wetsuit and a separate blanket and a special little dog-swamp-house for the advanced being...And it all feels so egoic but its not, it only feels that way. It's just the unrolling of things. All the planning and buying and being careful is of course useless. But its not my karma to sit on a pillow like Ramana or Nisargadatta, from all appearances the karma of this thing that goes around calling itself I is to head out into the isness and "do" the stuff it "does".

What's a guru have to say about that? Should I, can I, abandon my karma, my self-ness? Nope or at least it doesn't seem like it. Any abandonment would be trying and all trying is egoic. The lost screw is necessary so that my karma unfolds as it does. I suppose the egoic ranting is also necessary. I just look at this thing ranting when a screw is lost and I feel a sense of relief that I'm not it. Thanks for that. You've done a lot for me, you and the other gurus, along with my internal guru. I see that the lost screw and the ranting are part of a story of the unfolding of this thing's karma. I suppose story-less karma is possible but there's not shame in having a story that appears to have a lot of egoic ranting over lost screws.




Jed McKenna

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Ever since your first post, I felt you had a screw-loose... now I know it, but seriously.... who cares?

I never heard of Nis cruzin, but he loved the blues. It was called Bollyblues in his time and he played a mean sitar. Sitting there on his little guru cushion, knocking back Jack, he was quite a 'spirited' guy... but I never heard of him cruzin. You might be thinking of Lobsang Trungpa. He as great boarder, but that was in Tibet which is famous for it's pow. He was super crunchy shredding the Hims. Use to compete in the annual Pray Flag Pow Off. Of course, you had to be Buddhist and Vegan to compete. Great steez. Had a knarley stick made of laminated bamboo he nicked from holy flags at the Tsurphu Monastary in the Forbidden City, at least, that was the rumor goin round in the day. Phat and funky, he never lost a screw.

So now you are the swamp man. Seems to be the way America is going these days. Stay cool, hug your dog for me. BTW, did you hear of the dyslexic philosopher, spent his time wondering if there really is a dog.

Much love, and hunker well...

Your friend in paradise rippin the multiverse, Jed.