Author Topic: Jed Rant: More about ''Love ya''.  (Read 1613 times)

Jed McKenna

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Jed Rant: More about ''Love ya''.
« on: May 11, 2017, 12:03:49 am »
Dear reader, lurker, members and (insert any category you see fit):

Every now and then I get an email or post from someone asking me why I sign off with ''Love ya''. Some seem a little offended... like how can you say you ''love'' me when you don't even know me. In a superficial human sense they are correct but at a deeper level I know them better than they know themselves. Yes, I realize that sounds arrogant (  ::) ::) ::) ) and I promise I will stop being arrogant tomorrow.

I am not speaking of human love when I say ''love ya''. It has nothing to do with a human being loving another person... there is no such thing as a ''person'', that's just a concept built upon a collection of thoughts, memories and stories. Those stories of human love, for another, for country, for flag, etc. are all just that, stories. Entertaining, but just stories. If they were all added up in a pos and neg manner, I would suggest that they have caused more human grief than happiness.

Living in your stories is a sure road to suffering for the simple reason that they are not true. They are projections of your past hurts and pains into a future collection of should be's, wanna be's, might be's, I need and I don't want's. (that was grammatically challenging. I think I flunked).

Back to human love for a moment. Can you love a person? You might come very close. How? Simply let them be... without projecting anything on them. Don't try to help them or hinder them. Let them experience what they are experiencing. Stop thinking you know a better way, that you can improve them. (how does one improve a dream character?). Stop playing God... if for no other reason that it is disrespectful of that ''other's'' need to experience what they are experiencing.

How many of you have gotten into a romantic relationship with the thought...something like.. ''Gee.. he/she would be just great, 100% perfect if I just tweak that little habit, and perhaps help them realize this/that/whatever. Yeh, I think I can work with them. Gosh life will be great when they realize blah, blah, blah, blah... I sure hope the don't turn out like my last love.''

So... let's focus on ''you''. When you fall in love what do you want? Would you like to have someone completely and totally, without any reservations, accept you AS YOU ARE? How would that feel? Would that not ring of true human love? Should change be appropriate from time to time, wouldn't that be an excellent starting point, unconditional acceptance? On the other hand, how does it feel to be conditionally loved.. like... I love you if/but/when... garbage? Yes, it is garbage because it's just a rerun of stale stories. AND they are not even your stories... they are someone else's of how you should be ... often repeated over a lifetime and inevitably ending up with the same old, same old...   borrring.... :P :P :P .

One last point... if you are going to try this I suggest it has nothing to do with words. You don't tell a person anything... actions go deeper and beingness (forgive the NABS) goes much deeper. Pick someone in your life.. it might be a homeless beggar you just noticed in the street, or a spouse... or anything in between.

Decide for a period of time.. starting small, just one minute will do, that you will unconditionally love, accept, forgive and totally allow that person to be what they happen to be... not what you think they are (you don't have a clue anyways) just whatever they are. Let it go as deep as you can and as best you can. They are what they are and they are doing the best they can with what they have. Who are you to get in their way? It's none of your business and IMHO it's totally arrogant and presumptive of you to do so.

BUT WAIT JED.. what the hell are you doing? Aren't you trying to change people? Give me a break!
 ??? ???

Well put... and there is a very real difference between what I preached above (forgive me, I know not what I do) and what I practice (I have a pretty good idea of that).

Let me make up a brief story and see if I can dig myself a hole.  :-\ :-\ :-\

A friend comes to you and says, ''I really need help with X''. If, and I emphasize ''IF" they appear very sincere and ''IF'' they come out and ask you for help (i.e., it's not something you are reading into their expressions) then my experience is that you have an obligation to offer assistance. BIG CAVEAT: Don't offer something you don't have.

So, back to you Jed... aren't you doing what you are telling folks to not do.  >:( >:( >:(

Permit me to justify and explain (yeh, sure...dig a deeper hole).

Yes, I have assisted a good number of students, however, I have never ''attempted'' to assist anyone who didn't sincerely ask me for assistance. I have never put a book in anyone's hands and said, ''Hey, you really need this''. I have never tried to do some kind of therapy with an acquaintance who just wanted have a coffee and share a little misery and bitching. I have only worked closely with those who have come and asked me for assistance of some kind.

In my experience and observations, the above can contribute to a happier dream experience... what most folks really want. In addition, it's certainly a good way to make the transition into T/R a little more gentle.

As you have read this far, I consider that a plea for assistance on some level. How about trying the above, only briefly at first, and then share your experiences?

I wish you the best always.

Love ya, Jed.






 

« Last Edit: June 13, 2017, 02:12:03 am by Jed McKenna »

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john d'oh!

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Re: Jed Rant: More about ''Love ya''.
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2017, 12:37:35 am »
Will do, saving the space.

Edit: Just did a bit of this with my dad, who was talking to me about very grave stuff around me getting a job and how i’m liable to have no future if i don’t start my life soon.

What was most interesting were the pulls - the pull to put him at ease, to assure him it’s all fine, and the pull to prove that I really can’t solve my parents’ problem, manifest as my catastrophic future.

Instead I just sat and mostly listened. At one point he mentioned the guys outside wandering around with no future, then I giggled, and he was like “don’t laugh.” And I said “well the guys outside and the guys in the houses have the same future.” Pulls 1, Me 0.

But yeah, it’s becoming clearer that I can’t resolve other people’s anxieties. Even in a case like this where there’s an apparent causal link (I fix my life → parents are happy), there’s no immediate solution I can provide, and the pulling of mind moves in spite of the fact that I can’t help anyone, to cover it up and promise resolution.



« Last Edit: June 13, 2017, 02:08:41 am by Jed McKenna »

Misha

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Re: Jed Rant: More about ''Love ya''.
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2017, 01:42:51 am »
Hi Jed,

Wow, cool, I come to your forum to ask a question & while trying to remember how to find my own thread I see this rant, and it seems as good a place as any to ask it.

As you allude to in your rant here, other people seem to really mostly want you--well, I'll say "me, to be clear--to join their favorite stories about themselves.  In every situation possible.  That is, I guess, Love and Life to them.  I've gotten pretty good at dancing round the edges of that...not appearing to conflict with their stories of themselves, and also not really participating.  It does seem that as a result I come off as pretty "oblivious"...which suits me fine.

I don't typically share much about...uh...what I no longer see.  So I am almost always masquerading as someone who sees what isn't there.  It usually isn't as hard as I thought it would be; I mean, that is what everyone else is doing anyway, eh?!  :)

Here's where the situation can be a challenge (and where my question lies):  When someone wants me to behave a different way than I am behaving, it appears to always be because they want something from me that they perceive/believe I am not giving.  They feel I don't appreciate them enough.  Or that I think my idea is better than their idea.  Or whatever.  When really--I don't appreciate or dis-appreciate them--appreciation is not relevant.  And I don't even own my own ideas; they appear, and sometimes they come out of my mouth or pen or keyboard, and that's all.  So in these kinds of examples, they are way off re what they are projecting onto me, and if I can't dance away, then I am stuck not knowing how to even interface with them (the blank stare, egads!).  There is a large irony in these situations for me, bc the truth is it does not matter to me how they experience me--EXCEPT that it can matter in a strategic sense, in 3d day to day life.  Do you know what I mean?

Anyway, if you have any advice about this kind of thing, I'd be grateful to hear it.  If you don't, I'll just continue to muddle along.  (Usually it all runs along just fine--though I am actually a pretty horrible actor, it appears the spectators are so conditioned to believe I'm not acting that it makes it pretty easy in most ways.)

Thank you--Misha




Jed McKenna

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Re: Jed Rant: More about ''Love ya''.
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2017, 03:53:39 am »
Sounds like  you  are muddling along just fine.

So.... let's see:

Friend: I really need you to blah blah blah.
You: (trying to help as best you can) Well, that doesn't sound too difficult, but mind if ask you a question? If I do blah, blah, blah for you, what would that give you. (you are seeking the desired experience behind the b.s. It is the driver.)
Friend: Well, it would make me feel more (fill in the blank).
You: Yup, probably would, so let me get this straight, you want to feel (fill in the blank). Correct? You don't really want me to blah, blah, blah, you actually want to experience (fill in the blank).
Friend: Well, I guess so.. hey are you trying to psychoanalyze me?
You: What I am trying to do is find out what you really want. When we do that (together) then I will be in a better position to give you that specifically, and, you probably won't ask again. It's my guess that you will actually be more happy than if I just do blah, blah, blah. So, are you willing to find out what you really want, cause, I'm not so sure you will get it with blah, blah, blah. So have you ever felt (fill in the blank) before?
Friend: Uhh... yeh once I did.
You: Mind if I ask what happened to make you feel that?
Friend: (tells a story)
You: Tell me more about that experience. Do you get what I am doing here? It's complete and utter manipulation. However, humans are manipulating all the time, just in rather clumsy ways. Find that feeling and help them relive it. Be a good actor in their movie.

You might notice a couple of things. Perhaps your friend relives that experience and thus in the moment actually satisfies the need. You might also, just by inquiry, released some importances. And, there is always the possibility they will forget what they were asking for. They might say, ''Screw you, this isn't worth it.''. In this last case, you can be pretty sure you have a drama queen on your hands and you were being set up for an up set. In that case, ''Waiter, bill please''.

Play with this, it's huge fun and you may learn or even make a contribution to your friends experience. Remember, nothing is serious here. It's all play. Like children, humans learn best when playing.

Love ya, Jed.
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Marina

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Re: Jed Rant: More about ''Love ya''.
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2017, 08:08:57 am »
Life is amazing Jed.  :)
Just the other day I thought about it. And here is your message.
When I finished reading to the middle, I felt the impulse to share my experience. And then I read:
“How about … share your experiences?”
Life is amazing Jed !!  <3

So, what have I come to:

1. To help or not to help someone who doesn't ask for it ?

After many years of experience, I began to adhere strictly to the rule:
“Never, never, never help those who don't ask.”

But recently I began to allow myself to violate this rule. What I want to emphasize:
a) I don't give guidance. I only share my vision of something.
b) I do this extremely rarely, in exceptional cases. (I do this only when I feel that I can't not do this. Although my mind screams: "This is a mistake !!!" But if after that I feel lightness, then it's right.)
c) I can't recommend to beginner to do it, because
- one need to master the basic rule “Never …” and practice it for a long time;
- one must learn to distinguish the inner impulse from the voice of the mind;
- I have just started to allow "exceptions" and don't have enough experience to draw conclusions.

2. To help or not to help someone who ask for it ?

First: When a person asks for help, this doesn't mean that he really needs it. There are many reasons, Why does he do it. (Oh Jed, don't scold me for "Why"  :-* :) )
So I find out: Is he really hungry or wants to play it?
Sometimes it happens during the first conversation.
Sometimes this becomes clear on the basis of what a person does after a conversation.

3. How to help? The Flow

When I want to help a person, in fact I want to be a part of his process. And then an interesting interaction arises.
It feels like "I amness comes into resonance with he isness". But I call it simply “The Flow”.
And I never know beforehand how the conversation will go and how it will end.
I'm not always empty enough to keep The Flow clean. It happens that the mind creates a fog.
But sometimes it turns out well. I open my mouth and words come out of me that never occurred to me. It's the best !
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 02:07:51 pm by Marina »
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Rambler_Dick

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Re: Jed Rant: More about ''Love ya''.
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2017, 08:45:29 am »
In my experience it can be pretty tricky to love others because all I can do with them is to observe my own behavior patterns. Maybe I'm just biased, because when I observe people fighting about something very trivial just to blow off steam; or being passive aggressive to each other, it reminds me of my periodical indulgence of the same traits. So I often get aggravated - not for a long time but enough to convince myself that we cannot be really connected on the "human level", which is the only level I know.

However, I'm lucky enough to be surrounded by a few people who are not afraid to listen what I really think about them (I sure as hell won't sell them your non-existence wrap, though  :D) and they can stay surprisingly cool after that. Although, Jed, can you really give someone an advice? My (or anyone else's) advice won't help anyone, because: a) they are free to interpret it anyway they like; b) words don't really mean anything. For example, when I read your advice, it seems I get some profound meaning from it, but then a hour passes and understand that it doesn't really help, only adds to the story. But that's all one can do, I guess  ;D

Christonewman

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Jed Rant: More about ''Love ya''.
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2017, 01:57:26 pm »
Although there is awareness of beliefs, and for that matter that everything is unknowable, the addiction to fall into these delusions is extremely powerful. How can one be permanently aware that it's 'not real' when it appears that the only purpose is to create 'real'? Hope this makes a bit of sense!


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« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 08:29:28 pm by Christonewman »

EternalDawning

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Re: Jed Rant: More about ''Love ya''.
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2017, 03:53:30 pm »
Thanks for hanging around to answer the calls and and for the cognitive life support.

Yesterday I did it the wrong way and tried to "help" someone who wasn't asking, a whole "spiritual" group actually.  I saw what it was about for me and then appologized genuinely, but also had a little too much to say.  It looked arrogant to some others felt supported or amused.  I just felt like a fool and also grateful for the lessons in seeing.  I don't want to do that anymore.  Some people don't want to see and my time would be better spent playing bejeweld or suduko for Christ's sake.  I need to just have these conversations I want to have with me. 

jonnydas

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Re: Jed Rant: More about ''Love ya''.
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2017, 07:28:20 pm »
So happy that you are here or there or wherever, Jed.
Thanks!!

DragonTree

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Re: Jed Rant: More about ''Love ya''.
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2017, 07:41:57 pm »
Jed I read that big ol' post you made and it made me quite baffled as to what we're trying to do here (Not to put words on other peoples' fingertips).
It seems like you're listing byproducts of a state of an unresisting mind which is of no value if you aren't there already. I say this because of an embarassing habit I used to have where I would mimic "alpha male behaviours" from a place of not having them and it only gave me more grief. That being said I'm willing to give it my best shot, if only to completely contradict my first sentence.

Marcel

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Re: Jed Rant: More about ''Love ya''.
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2017, 09:34:55 pm »
Thank You, love You! :-) :-(

um

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Re: Jed Rant: More about ''Love ya''.
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2017, 12:46:37 am »
Lately it happened with my partner that we came to the point where other one is ugly and smelly and annoying but still we had the need to stay there connected. Once we realized that is not true but due to the being together all the time projecting ourselves.

Letting go of the need of living together was huge relief. There was a huge mental and emotional walls around the decicion and took weeks to break it down.

Every now and then we meet us and it is pleasant. I can see needs and wants coming to the surface but Im doing my best to stay aware on them and keep from projecting. It is not easy but possible. It doesnt feel like the passionate love. It is a connection deeper than anything we have going on on the surface. We are all alone here (until..) but as we appear in the same game is it possible to never ever be alone ,, ? ;)

Charlotte

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Re: Jed Rant: More about ''Love ya''.
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2017, 01:30:34 am »
That was a "wow" rant, Jed. From my experience, I can attest that allowing others just to be process works perfectly, makes a dream much more pleasant . Unfortunately, however, and also in my experience, it takes a lot of all around work on yourself, breaking one's behavior patterns. Basically, I learned to shut up, to stop sharing or expressing opinions in talking to people or texting on the phone or posting things/pictures on facebook - the last one is the worst thing one can do, it perpetuates/continues an even faker than fake story of you. In a strange way, things I have changed about my behavior, broke the story of "me", the story did not have to be constantly maintained anymore. That was a liberating feeling. I broke a pattern, I "erased personal history" - that was borrowed from Castaneda. I know you are not a fan of Castaneda, but the "path with the heart" book never made its way to me, the one the Universe dropped on my lap was "Journey to Ixtlan" and I proceeded to thoroughly follow the steps of erasing personal history (ego substructure demolition), taking responsibility for every experience that occurs to me, making death an advisor (momento mori), not taking myself seriously. That was 4 years ago, before universe decided to drop your book on my lap last year. SA process just streamlined everything, made it an autobahn highway, anything that was not yet destroyed, crumbled within months.

But now it becomes a question of a chicken and an egg: do you allow others "just to be" themselves, without changing them, starting now; or you first do work on yourself, and then allowing others "just to be" is an effortless byproduct of the process.  From my experience shutting your mouth up  and stopping story sharing with people around you is a great thing to, when one doesn't know where to start. Oh and if something bothers you - SA it right away, that annoyance energy is a great fuel, that burns clearly, leaving no traces or stories afterwards.
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Jed McKenna

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Re: Jed Rant: More about ''Love ya''.
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2017, 02:05:05 am »
Thank you all for your posts...

Dear C;

You wrote: do you allow others "just to be" themselves, without changing them, starting now; or you first do work on yourself, and then allowing others "just to be" is an effortless byproduct of the process.

Back at ya, you know the answer to that question and don't need input from me.

Let me give you an example of a great teacher, my father. Once, when I was about  7 years old, I became interested in model planes. I noticed that balsa wood was very light. So, I asked him what woods were heavy. He said something like, ''Let's find out''.

We went to some woody type guys and I ended up with a block of balsa wood and a block of Lignum Vitae. One weighed ounces and one was quite a few pounds. Now I know a little more about wood, but it was never about wood... it was all about him teaching me how to learn and teach others.

That, in a twisted way, brings me to another little tale. I was sitting having coffee with a friend here. He doesn't know who I really am, but that's not important. He went on about how much he hated beggars and wouldn't give them any money. Ah... the chance for a little fun.

I know pretty much all the beggars around here and I noticed a mom and her lovely little daughter coming down the street. I told him to just hang on to his thoughts for a moment and I started rifling around in my pockets like I was looking for something important. I said, ''Ah crap, have you got a dollar bill on you?''. I said it with a certain tone of gravity. Just as he passed it to me, my beggars friends approached. I snatched his dollar, got up and walked over to them and gave it to mom. She graciously thanked me. I returned to my seat and nonchalantly said, ''Oh, they were very thankful, now where were we?''. He had considerable trouble speaking for a moment. I think there was a little re-wiring going on.

Of course all of this was an act. I was putting him on in order to see if I could shake up his thinking a little. There is nothing wrong with giving money and nothing wrong with not giving, but I am not big on compulsive habitual behaviors that limit one's responses. I like flexibility. I can assure you his thinking will be a little different the next time someone asks for money. How it might be different, that's up to him and I don't really care.

The point of the above is that... if someone asks for help, and they are dead sincere, if you can get them to do something with their bodies, or you can model out something with yours, it will open up more doors than the standard..'''Well, why don't you blah, blah.'' or, ''I would just tell him/her to f-off''. Verbal expressions are of little impact compared to physical actions.

The simple act of you listening and then contemplating alternatives (with your MOUTH SHUT) will open up doors in the other in subtle ways. I have found these kind of ''tricks'' quite helpful in the past... not about T/R, but very much about being happy and a good actor in other's movies.

Love ya, Jed.




Marina

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Re: Jed Rant: More about ''Love ya''.
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2017, 02:59:56 am »
"Mouth shut"
OK!  ;)
How do you manage to respond in one post to everyone?!  :)