Author Topic: Late at night and something churning in me.... it's about my guru recommendations....  (Read 912 times)

Jed McKenna

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Dear Forum Member:

I recently said that my 'go-to' guys were Nis, Ramana and UG Krishnamurti, but that has been bugging me a bit... and seeing how few things bug me, I found myself lying in bed wide awake wondering what that was all about. I gave up on sleep and grabbed my computer.

Over the years I have been asked a number of times as to who to recommend as a teacher. At various times I have mentioned a modest and number of people who I felt has something to offer. On one hand, of course, they all have something to offer and what you get is dependent on what you 'think' you need and the stage that a 'teacher' is at, plus a little chemistry also helps.

I would like to be able to say I studied them all, but of course that's not possible. I have taken what I could from those who I felt had what I needed and that might assist me to move on. I have settle down somewhat in what might be called 'old age', although I certainly don't feel old in any way, and I do feel some wisdom has landed upon me over the years. My approach to teaching and students continues to morph... while the reality of Truth remains unchanged.

When asked, I am not inclined to say that this one or that one is NOT a go-to guy/gal, although I recently implied it on a post about one fellow who I have a pretty strong gut feeling about. But the thing that was getting to me tonight was UGK. Something remained unfinished.

There are undoubtedly steps to what I have called T/R. One fairly obvious one is the experience of no-self.. the realization of the fictional nature of the thought constructed thingy that one considers to be him or her... AKA, the personality. It's a very real and, in my experience and observations, requisite step. The confusion arises when one considers that experience to be T/R. Just the basic languaging when someone calls it an 'experience' is a red light to me because T/R is not an 'experience', it's a very unique form or knowingness (realization). You don't 'experience' it, you just know it at a cellular level. It arises to you as an obvious and unquestionable reality.

UGK was a charming human who spoke eloquently and convincingly. I would very much like to have met him. He was an excellent communicator and taught the steps to where he got in a lucid way, i.e., a great teacher up to that point, the point of no-self, I would not hesitate to recommend him to students. But, he stopped there and IMHO failed to push through the last boundary and thus into a full blown Truth Realization. His 'stopping' is quite evident when one listens to him. He pretty much says he found no-self and then stopped searching.

Let me back up.  One might compare 'unlearning' with 'learning' in that both involves 'steps'. Steps can occur quickly or then can be so darn slow they are like my childhood attempts to learn the piano. That was frustrating for ALL parties. However, and this is an important point, 'unlearning' the personality is not the final goal, it is just a step. one step.

There is certainly much to be learned from UGK and I have no pause in recommending him... with the caveat that, as with all teachers, there is a point that one leaves them and goes out on their own... or more accurately leaves with the nothing they have received and revealed.

So, in an effort to get back to sleep I will place my recommendations in this order; start with UG, move on to Nis and then, if you feel inclined, on to Ramana. I will stick with this recommendation at least until I wake up tomorrow morning. If, at any time, you feel I might be able to unstick you, or better yet, push you off a cliff... don't hesitate to ask me. I will do my best.

Much love and stay well.

Jed....over and out.

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Chuck

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I recently ran into an apt description of what you're talking about with UGK from Stephen Wolinsky (who is, BTW, a follower of Nisargadatta).

Wolinsky calls it the no-self self, or no-identity identity. The state of being fixed in the no-self. A very subtle form of identity for sure.

Speaking of meeting with UG, a few years ago I ran across this video of him with a young Byron Katie. I think she is the real deal (and know you do too). She has an amazing way of connecting with her student's perspectives but without attachment, in order to help them turn their suffering around.



Many of the YT comments on this video bash BK (must be UG fanboys), but you can see how attached UG is to his no-self perspective. UG clearly doesn't understand or try to see any another. IMHO a being without specific attachment is free to see the perspective of -- but not necessarily attach to -- any other perspective.

Just another subtle ego trap, right? Even the I AM and the no-self are appearances that can be confused for Truth.

Enjoy  :)

Jon Osterman

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My introduction to all of this T/R stuff was UG Krishnamurti. At first I absolutely hated the guy....but something kept nagging at me to watch and read more of his material. It took me about 2-3 years to fully digest what it was the man was actually doing. I've made good friends with several people who were very close to UG and have heard tons of great stories about him not found elsewhere. Honestly, his story is one of the most bizarre and intriguing stories I've ever heard. After UG there was no need to look for anyone or anything else. Game over.

abranpaso

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UGK was an anti-teacher teacher, an anti-guru guru.
He emphasize and over emphasize that he had nothing to teach.
He really hated all gurus, saints, sages, teachers and saviors.
He said about Jesus and Buddha that they decived themselves and decives others,
without any doubt he would say that to all modern teachers, including you Mr. Jed.
He was like George Carlin but 10 times worst.
He hated thought and all his creations.
But he was the only teacher I knew for almost 15 years, I learn very well from him the first step to enlightenment: Erase every idea and belif that your society has put in you.
I agree with you, his teaching stops there.

Then I find you, and you teach me something much better: The word FURTHER, that to me, means that I must never belive that I have reach my destination, always there is something further.

Thank you




pretheesh

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Perhaps it's fine to stop with no-self and just live out the rest of life 😉.  Many people say they are the true awareness behind everything but did not even have no-self realization, but found a new higher self to get identified for safety.

guest1907

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Sounds like fatigue, but what about recommending one single teacher?

Raya

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Krishnamurti’s interviews with Dr. Allen Anderson was the first time I heard him. I did find his awareness of life, or the lack thereof, around him to be somewhat stopping at dead ends. Especially when he talks about fear. He couldn’t really answer why it seemed to be a fundamental driving force of human nature, and yet knowing how much unnecessary destruction of T/R it causes: like an anvil.

Who is nis?

And what do you think of this ukg quote: “If you begin to understand what you are without trying to change it, then what you are undergoes a transformation.”

How could you know what you are, when it’s impossible to ever truly know what you are; and even if you did know what you are, it wouldn’t really be what you are. And then what? Maybe that’s where people stop.

Jed McKenna

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Delightful to hear from all of you, and I just slept about 12 hours which was great.

I appreciate your thoughts, non-thoughts, observations and the like. One challenge with just saying turn to one specific teacher goes like this. A newby to whatever we are doing here asks 'Just give me one guy' and if you gave him my first choice, Nis, then there is a good chance your friend would not be interested. Nis is amazing but certainly not for beginners and in my beginning days, I didn't know how to hear or take him. He would have promptly kick me out of his loft for asking stupid questions. It took me a number of years before I grasped what he was saying. Once that happened it was a whole different ride.

As a beginner, you have to look around on you own at many teachers. You might think you are wasting your time, and certainly some will be wasted, but a great side effect is you will become more and more selective as your NABS meter improves. This journey takes great patience and discernment. The only test that I apply is 'does it work' but I should be clear. It doesn't matter what works for others, it's 'does it work for you?'. Never forget that anyone and anything can be your teacher when you are available, open, ripe and ready. I can't emphasize that too much.

Love ya all and stay well.

Jed.

BTW: Nis is Nisagardatta and NABS is 'new age bull s h i t).

Smiling

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If, at any time, you feel I might be able to unstick you, or better yet, push you off a cliff... don't hesitate to ask me. I will do my best.


Hi, Jed.
Tears ran into my eyes as I was reading the above passage. I don't know why. Maybe it's a calling from Truth. I still haven't received your reply of my email. But that is not important anymore. I realized those questions were merely distractions, and it also made me see how attached I was to your attention and affirmation. Well, let me be. I want to write you another email but still drag about it. I feel very tried. Not tired of you. My body is going through some process, some swollenness and sourness and nausea for unknown reason. I will write an email to you sooner or later, I think.

All the best to you.
Smiling.

通过我的 V1831A 上的 Tapatalk发言

« Last Edit: April 28, 2020, 03:56:54 am by Smiling »

Jed McKenna

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Hi Dear:

Don't have any idea what happened to your email. I get lot's of mail and it may just have slipped into some crevasse. Try writing again when you feel up to it. Hope you are better soon.

Love ya, Jed

alig

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If I had to chose only one guru I would go for mushrooms every time. its fast, effective and foolproof.  :o ??? :-X

Jed McKenna

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A shrumuru... has to be good,  ;) ;) ;) I mean, Terrence McKenna was a talented guy, like why not, hey, dude  8) 8) 8)

Stay cool man... and never forget, it's all a hallucination.

Love ya, Jed
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alig

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A shrumuru... has to be good,  ;) ;) ;) I mean, Terrence McKenna was a talented guy, like why not, hey, dude  8) 8) 8)

Stay cool man... and never forget, it's all a hallucination.

Love ya, Jed
lets remember his message
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAlaRdrcQcY?t=2826

Jed McKenna

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He was amazing in a variety of ways. Would have enjoy meeting or even tripping with him.. but alas... it's just me and CNN  :P :P :P. HEY! I'm just joking!  :o :o :o

Much love and stay well.

Jed.

getitgotit

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I think it does not make sense to have a guru at all..

plus I think UG is too depressing and did not see beauty in the world, I do not prefer him

If any guru, then Terence McKenna, or Audrey Hepburn